Intentional Leaders Podcast with Cyndi Wentland

How to Hold Space as a Grounded Leader with Heather Plett

• Cyndi

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Heather Plett, co-director of the Center for Holding Space, shares her powerful insights on the transformative practice of "holding space" and introduces the concept of being a "grounded guide" in today's leadership landscape.

• The practice of holding space involves walking alongside others in their experiences without trying to control, direct, or judge them
• Holding space begins with self-awareness and presence before extending to others
• Nature connection and stillness practices help ground leaders in presence
• Seeing and honoring people's innate potential requires overcoming cultural biases about productivity
• The "grounded guide" approach helps leaders navigate liminal spaces of transformation
• Facing your shadows and biases is essential for evolving as a leader
• Leadership development must include emotional, psychological and spiritual growth
• Community and accountability partnerships prevent ego-driven leadership
• Slowing down often reveals wisdom that productivity-focused mindsets miss
• Adult development continues throughout life and impacts organizational and societal well-being

Get in touch with Heather:
Website: https://centreforholdingspace.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherplett/
Book: The Art of Holding Space
Substack: atenderspace.substack.com

I'd love to hear from you! Send a text message.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to another episode of the Intentional Leaders Podcast, where we explore ideas, stories and insights to help you lead with purpose and intention. Today, I have the distinct pleasure of welcoming Heather Plett. She is a powerful voice in the world of holding space, leadership and personal transformation. She's an internationally recognized author, speaker and facilitator and she has touched people's lives across the globe. She's perhaps best known for her incredible book called the Art of Holding Space, and that has been a guiding light for anyone who is navigating change, grief, loss or growth in human connection. And she does that with compassion and with authenticity. With a background in leadership, development, community engagement and storytelling, heather brings a deep wisdom to conversations about how you can step up, how you can show up for yourself and for others, especially in life's most tender moments. Get ready for a beautiful and thought-provoking conversation. All right, today I am honored to welcome Heather Platt to the podcast. Good afternoon.

Speaker 2:

Good afternoon, it's nice to be here.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and thank you. Thank you for taking time out of your schedule, thank you for being a part of this episode and I'm excited we got a chance to meet. So today I want to talk to you a little bit about the work that you do and get a general just get some general thoughts and ideas that you have about leadership. But one of the things that you emphasize in the work you do and in your business is called holding the space, and that really intrigued me because back when I went through coaching certification, that concept was front and center for us as coaches to do that. So I would love to hear from your perspective how that started, what it means to you and how do people do that to you and how do people do that?

Speaker 2:

Sure, so I. I spent many years working in leadership positions in government and then nonprofit and was really interested in facilitation. So I was studying, I was learning facilitation skills and I so I first encountered the concept of holding space at a leadership intensive that was focused on facilitation and leadership, and was really intrigued with this concept of holding space, and so it was a kind of a curious thing that I held in my heart my quest. And then what happened is I, my mom died, and myself and my siblings spent the last four days of her life with her in a really intense situation in her home, caring for her as she was dying. And after that experience, what really landed for me even though it wasn't a facilitation, landed for me, even though it wasn't a facilitation you know place where that was happening what was going on as we supported mom in her dying was that we had a palliative care nurse that was coming in to support us as we supported mom, and I recognized, oh, this is what holding space means, and so I kind of took it out of that facilitation, leadership practice into, you know, a death, dying and grieving practice, and I wrote a blog post about it.

Speaker 2:

That was back in 2015, about how this palliative care nurse held space for us and that really went viral and kind of launched me into this work of trying to not only clarify and define and deepen the practice of holding space, but to go continue that inquiry into what, how do we practice it, how do we live it, how does it change us and really, where I've landed.

Speaker 2:

The simplest explanation that I give for holding space is that it's the practice of supporting a person and walking alongside them in whatever life experience they're going through, whether it's grief or struggle or depression or growth or transformation or anything that you're supporting, and it it's a particular way of walking alongside them where you're not trying to control them or overly direct them or judge them or you know, or layer your own story or your own ego onto what they're doing. So it's it. And then, as I developed the practice and deepened into my understanding of it, I started to realize that the largest part of the practice is how do we hold space for ourselves, how do we be present with ourselves that supports us, and being as grounded and as and help hold our own ego in as healthy a way that we can show up for the other person without projecting our stuff onto them, and so it really became a deepening practice of holding space for yourself so that you can be in those relationships and hold space for other people.

Speaker 1:

What a beautiful concept. And a lot of the research says that we are only kind of fully present half of the time anyway, zipping into the past, and we're going out in the future and we're not even fully here. And I think you know you said something important, not just from a facilitation, but from a life point of view how do you really make that choice? Because it is a deliberate choice that you have to make to do that. There's so many distractions to that.

Speaker 2:

It is exactly, and so it's a deliberate choice. And then it's a minute by minute practice. You know, as like we're having this conversation here, and even in the midst of this conversation I'm listening to you and all of a sudden my mind is, you know, meandering to somewhere else. Or I'm noticing something on your screen, or there's something going on. Our brains are kind of mystical places where we don't fully understand what's going on.

Speaker 2:

But when I decide that I'm going to hold space, I am really looking for practices that help me not judge myself for doing those things, because we all do them, but help me kind of set them aside and help me be intentional about not giving into that distraction or not, or the judgment that shows up, because, again, judgment is going to be present in us, in the running, in the background, all the time. It just is. And how do I, how do I work with myself in a way that is, that allows me to be as present as possible. And it's not a practice of perfectionism, it's not a practice that we ever attain fully, because we do have these complicated minds and hearts and bodies, but as best we can, we learn to be, to be present and to be engaged in a way that that the other person can blossom in whatever they need to blossom into.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that's a, it's such a, and it's what's I think interesting about it is it seems so easy, like well, yeah, of course I'd be here for you. But how many times are we with someone or in an experience? And even now, you and I talked right before the recording, like my dog might bark at any time and all I can think of is, please don't bark out there. But we, we do. We have to work so hard at that, but it's so. What other way do we really want to go through life? You know to? To honor the relationships we have, the connections we have, the interactions, the moments that so many of us miss for so many reasons? Exactly so, as a practice, it's a. It is.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it really is. And I mean, let's face it, we live in busy, in a busy world, busy environments, busy like, and we we create some of the busyness, but some of it is imposed on us. And so we've we've kind of developed these really high capacity brains that can, like, shift really quickly from one thing to the next. That needs our attention. And then it gets even worse because we're online and social media kind of feeds off of that, that ability to shift our attention and get easily distracted and turn our attention towards whatever the social media platform wants us to. And so it's unlearning some of that and it's learning to be more still and to find ways.

Speaker 2:

And I've just recently, as we spoke before we got on this call, I've moved to Vancouver Island, partly because and to find ways. And I've just recently, as we spoke before we got on this call, I've moved to Vancouver Island partly because and to a small town by a lake, partly because for me that stillness comes in. As much time as possible I spend out among the trees and listening to birds and being by the lake so that I can learn to soothe my nervous system, soothe my brain, so that I can learn to soothe my nervous system, soothe my brain, be quiet as much as I can so that I can then be present for other people and be in those relationships in the way that I really want to be in them, in a grounded and supportive way.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that's it. It's a wonderful thing to know that that is accessible to any of us, anytime. Right, go outside, be with nature, find a spot, find a place. There's a beautiful park for us, just a couple blocks down, and it's lovely. There's so many opportunities to sit, to pause, lots of trees, lots of walks through the woods and to be able to use that time, as you said, to connect, to get grounded, pause, to pay attention. There's a lot of value to that and it's accessible to all of us.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it is, and you know, and what people will often ask me questions like well, what? Like what if I'm afraid of nature? Or what if I don't have access to nature? I live in a downtown, high rise or something, and I say you know what? There's always access to something and we are nature. So like get in touch with your own body is getting in touch with nature because you are an embodiment.

Speaker 2:

You're like an embodied being of nature and I see you have a plant behind you and you have, you know you have greenness in your home or or even from a high rise, you can find a place where you can sit a park bench or, you know, sit with a tree in your neighborhood. There is access to something and sometimes we overcomplicate it and we all want to go and vision quests out into the woods and that may be lovely, but not all of us have access to that kind of way of living.

Speaker 1:

We need that kind of immersion. No, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so the work that you do, you connect your audience is, you know well, the audience of human beings, but you also work with leaders and organizations, and one thing that you and I talked about is you're helping to make the connection between leaders and helping their employees reach their potential. So when you think about the connection of leadership and potential and that space between, how do you tend to approach that, or what are some of your strategies to help leaders to do that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, a lot of it comes back to this practice of holding space, and what I feel is really embedded in the practice is really honoring somebody's humanity and their dignity and their own autonomy and agency, when we can see that person as wholly human and wholly good, even if they're making mistakes, they're screwing up, etc. But there's goodness and there is beauty and there's uniqueness in each individual that we're working alongside or that we're leading, and so that has to be the starting place. I need to be able to see that beauty in a person, so that I see their potential, even if they don't, and even if they're lost in some self-doubt or some shame as we all are in different ways or they're seeing limitations or barriers or creating things that are getting in the way of their own potential. If I can see something in them and work really hard to see something in them, to witness that beauty, then I can help them to learn to see it too. And that has to come with.

Speaker 2:

Again, it goes back to my own work. I have to kind of work to set aside my biases. I have to work to set aside some of the culturally imposed, the socially conditioned ways of seeing people and and, for example, if I'm working with a person with disabilities and who has real, real limitations in what they are able to do, and maybe they can only work for an hour at a time before they need to go and look after their body or something like that, I need to be able to see beauty in the gift that that person can bring with that limitation instead of seeing that just as a limitation. It's like, okay, so how can you help to shape the work environment so that it is kind to people with that, with that limitation? How can? What gift can you bring from the wisdom that you can bring from that place of your disability or or whatever it is that you're carrying? And so I? That's where I see it as a starting point.

Speaker 2:

And then even you know, I think we also have to reimagine what we mean by potential, right, the human potential movement, I think, is kind of rooted in a little bit of a. It often is rooted in kind of a misogynistic and kind of capitalistic framework, and I think we need to expand it to say what is everybody's potential? Whether that means that they can, they can contribute to a capitalist model where everybody's got to be productive and making money and succeeding, etc. There's, there's potential and this is one of my ways of really experiencing nature and witnessing nature.

Speaker 2:

Like the other day I was kind of down on the path looking at a slug that's crossing the path really slowly and I'm thinking you know what's the wisdom of this really slow moving slug as it moves across the path? Well, the slug has developed skills in, in being avoided Like what's what like. For one thing, this slug doesn't taste good to a bird or it has slime on it that makes it not easily accessible. So this really slow moving creature on the path has developed some resources or skills or natural parts of their body that help them evade things in nature the birds or whatever. And so there's wisdom in the slowest moving person on your team. And how can we gain something and how can we see all of that as potential instead of just the high performing kind of version of potential?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's wisdom in that, but there's also a reframing in that, because we tend to be reinforced and wired and, as you said, culturally shaped to perform and to be productive. And the slowing down, the honoring of that, the paying attention to all of those things and reframing it is a big deal.

Speaker 2:

Exactly A lot of people, my husband.

Speaker 1:

I talk about that a lot because as we, as we kind of navigate into this newer chapter of our life and thinking about what you know for me I've always been work has been my life and I'm trying to recreate and reframe some of that. And it's difficult though it's difficult to, I don't. I judge myself. You know much less the judging when you're in a managerial position to judge others, and it's hard to reframe that and step back and I don't know, just take a different approach. But I, yeah, it's important.

Speaker 2:

It's a reframing and it's really asking yourself to examine what are the biases that you know, what's the internalized kind of biases that tell you that you're not worthy unless you're producing something that you're not? And this is when we look at aging, for example, like I'm not young anymore but my body's not doing what it did when I was 29.

Speaker 2:

And can I be in acceptance of that instead of trying to push it to be what it was then? And similarly with my people, I have a disabled daughter and I, you know there's limitations to what she has capacity for, and I need to reframe the bias that says, oh, she needs to be doing this in order to, you know, be fulfilling her potential and that, yeah, that doesn't ask of us that we shift some of our biases and examine the ways that we've been culturally shaped and, yeah, socially conditioned.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and for sure it was very much in our family. You know that was, and you and I were talking, you were mentioning your mother's passing, and when my father passed and this was a few years ago we were all there too. You know we would take turns at the time. You know it was kind of still COVID ish and there were. We couldn't all be with him all the time so, but whenever whoever was with him, he's like shouldn't you be at work? And he kept saying that, like shouldn't you be working? Why aren't you at work? And I'm like, if you got a computer, dad, you're working, don't worry about it. I think we're all just fine. And if no one's working right now it doesn't matter, because we actually want to be with you. But he was freaked out about it, like all of a sudden we're going to be homeless and I'll lose our jobs. I'm like I'm self-employed. I think I'm fine. Well isn't?

Speaker 2:

I mean that that that feels kind of profound to me to, on your deathbed, be concerned about whether your children are working or not, Like that's some deeply ingrained belief systems? That does not does you know? And and I feel a little sad for him that that was the, that was the concern that he was carrying to his death, like that, that that was such an important part? And but it is, it's true, and I had a workaholic dad too and and you know that work ethic is really deeply ingrained and taught and taught and there's great value in it too. I mean, I'm sure you learned a lot of really valuable lessons from your dad about the importance of work and the importance of making a good contribution to the society and things.

Speaker 2:

So I don't want to say that those are bad beliefs, but recognizing the shadow in every belief I think is important, because a belief can have both shadow and light and sometimes the shadow pulls us down into that belief, running things too much, so that we can't sit with the dying or that we can't honor the importance of this moment.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely, and that we can choose to take a longstanding belief and change it and identify whether it's working for us or not, and honoring the ability to choose. You said earlier you know kind of autonomy and people wanting uh, agency and to make choices. And there's a choice to choose something different about what you believe, about, as you said, um, productivity potential, all the things yeah yeah, I'm on the quest never to shift right. That's why, well, and you know, it just gets just the fact that you're that you're thinking I'm on the quest.

Speaker 2:

Never to shift right. That's my hope. You know just the fact that you're thinking about these things and reflecting on them. I suspect you're going to ask different questions on your deathbed than your dad did. I don't know that for sure.

Speaker 1:

I'll be with me everybody Exactly Put down your computers Exactly. Just be with me, everybody Exactly. Put down your computers Exactly. Yeah, yes, I think I think you're right on that one. So one of the things, too, that you and I talked about and it's connected to what you've been talking about with, with being being present, being more present, being more mindful and holding the space, but you use the, the word, the words or the phrases grounded guide in what you're doing and when you think about again from a leadership or even just a human being perspective and I know you've talked a little bit about this already. But what is? What does that phrase mean to you? Yeah, to be a founded guide.

Speaker 2:

So this is a fairly new terminology. My business partner and I her name is Krista, and we've just developed this year long program where we're running webinars and it's called Leadership for Liminal Spaces. Liminal spaces and liminal spaces are those gaps between things, when there's a transformation and you go through this kind of messy transformation period where you're letting go of something old but you haven't yet emerged into the new. And we were looking really looking for a term like what do we, how do we define the kind of leader that is able to, that has the wisdom and skills and the practice to support people, to hold space for people as they're moving through that liminality. And what we came up with was the term grounded guide. And so for us, a grounded guide is someone who I mean start with the word grounded that they're grounded in a wisdom in themselves, a self-trust, a self-confidence, but self-awareness, self-reflection, and they're grounded in relationships and they have a community of support. They're grounded in a spiritual practice of some kind. They're grounded in a relationship with nature. As I've said already, they have these places where they're making those deep connections so that they can be as solid as possible when the winds come, when change happens, when there's disruption, when people are angry with them because they're, you know, like if you're going through change in an organization, people will start to take their frustration out on you as the leader. So that person has to be grounded and know how to find stillness in themselves so that they're not easily rocked by what's going on. And that grounding, I mean it's not an easy thing and you know it comes with kind of years of practice to be that ground. I'm still often not the grounding guide, like when things happen it knocks me off my center. It happens. So it's almost more about can you return to being centered than are you always centered? Do you have the capacity to withstand it and come back to that grounding place?

Speaker 2:

And the grounding, like I say, it's grounded in connections. It's also grounded in wisdom that comes from having a lineage of you know you're rooting yourself in some ancient lineage of practice and wisdom. You're also rooting yourself in understanding systems, how systems work and how everything is an intricate system and we are all part of intricate systems and these systems are influencing us and shaping us. And so in that disruptive time sometimes we're disrupting ourselves but we're also disrupting the system. So a grounded guide has to understand that relationship between the individual and the system. So a grounded guide has to understand that relationship between the individual and the system. So this is really an evolving kind of learning that we're trying to develop. It really feels quite important right now because there are so many things that are making us feel wobbly and in the world and what we deeply believe is that we need to equip more people for this kind of leadership, this kind of form of leadership, so that we can weather these storms as well as we can.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's so meaningful and, as you said, so relevant right now with all the things that human beings, but leaders and organizations and people are facing. So, as you think about this you said there's kind of a year long experience and what do you see as the biggest challenge so far with people going through that experience? What's the hardest part for them as they, as they navigate through this Cause? You're really trying to get them to rewire their center of gravity in a way like, okay, come back to that feeling of presence, the feeling of connection and trust and sense of self, what? What is problematic for people typically?

Speaker 2:

That's a good question and one of the things that I will say and I we also have an eight month program on holding space on that practice specifically, and then we also do a certification level. And one of the things that comes up again and again in our longer programs is people get to a place where they really have to face themselves. And when I say face themselves, I mean they have to be willing to take a look at their shadows, at their biases, their belief systems, so that they can be like as humble and honest as possible, so that they because we, we won't change unless we're willing to look at what needs changing. And many of us we go quickly into shame.

Speaker 2:

If you tell me that I'm not a very good friend, for example, it's going to send me into shame and I don't want to face what might be true about what you're saying. And so often we find in these programs that's kind of the threshold of challenge for people. Once they can move past that and recognize, oh, I have to be honest, as honest as possible about myself, so that I can adapt to what's needed, so that I can that I'm not rooted too much in ego and my pride, and and that's. That's the best way that you can be grounded in in and support other people in meaningful ways.

Speaker 1:

It sounds very transformative but also very scary, I bet. To get to that point, oh my gosh. And I worked. There's a gentleman that I've worked with for a few years. He's written about mindsets, ryan Gottfriedson. He's an author and he does a lot of work with your subconscious drivers, etc. But I remember working with him and getting to that spot that you talked about. You know where I really had to decide how am I going to show up? What am I going to let go of? How honest do I want to be about my? You know my relationships and connections and do I want to make those better? Because by changing myself and I'm not not expecting anyone else to change, and those are scary times but if you can get through it and have someone, wonderful, you know, like you and Ryan was for me that it creates that safety. Like you can do this and other people have done it and it's worth the risk and the vulnerability to do it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's where, going back to, we talked about earlier, but holding space as a leadership practice, like you're saying.

Speaker 2:

Ryan was that person for you, like, and he had to be willing to walk with you through that and to see that light in you, to see that you have the capacity for that kind of self reflection in order to be the, the grounded guide for you to move through that.

Speaker 2:

And so, yeah, that's what we want to really equip people with, because we, we, you know, we believe in, we believe in people, and you know the very simplest, simplest form of saying that, you know saying that, and and, and we believe that people need to.

Speaker 2:

And I don't know if you're familiar with Bill Plotkin's work, but Bill Plotkin, he maps out I think he calls it the eco, eco, soul centric wheel of evolution, where he's talking about how we evolve from our infancy and into adolescence and into adulthood and mature adulthood and then into our elder years, and he's very much a nature based kind of psychology eco psychology, I think is what he used the term. I think that's what he used the term and he talks about how many of us in the world get stuck in adoles of the leaders that are in power in many ways in business and government, et cetera are fairly stuck in their emotional development. We really need are the leaders that have the capacity for that kind of growth and self-reflection and can move into greater capacity because they are grounded in the wisdom and not as rooted in their egos and their emotional immaturity.

Speaker 1:

Wouldn't that be a dream, Heather?

Speaker 2:

Uh-huh, I keep hoping, I keep working towards that, me too, you know one way or another we have to commit ourselves to believing in a better future.

Speaker 1:

That is true, well, and I think it's so, when I was in college, you know, 150 years ago, we I was in education and a lot of the psychology and the development and the focus at that time was on childhood development Because, you know, 40 years ago or 30 years ago there wasn't a lot of knowledge about adult development. I think in the way that there is now a recognition that adults can and have the capacity to continue to evolve and grow and shift and change in all kinds of ways subconscious drivers, behaviors, etc. And and really looking more inward to find their purpose.

Speaker 2:

So I think that has been more studied and now there's more research that says yeah, that is, it's possible, yeah, it's not only possible but it's necessary, and it's in order for us to make wiser choices for the collective and even for the world and for our place in nature. And you know, as somebody who cares a lot about the destruction we're doing to the natural world and the way we're speeding on climate change, that comes from an immature mindset. And maturity will cause us to make wiser choices. And another way of looking at, another kind of theory on that is called spiral dynamics. I don't know if you're familiar with that at all.

Speaker 2:

Another kind of theory on that is called spiral dynamics. I don't know if you're familiar with that at all, but spiral dynamics they map this kind of human development on an individual level and also a collective level, and they say if you've got a bunch of individuals that are not moving up the spiral in their own development, it results in a collective that is not moving up the spiral. So we end up with immature cultures, and that I mean that's why we make bad choices and that's why governments are making bad choices in a lot of places right now, because that we have not sufficiently evolved into a more mature way of being with each other and with the world.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and when you look at that, when you say maturity, is that emotional maturity, cognitive maturity, psychological or all of the above? I would say all of the above.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a spiritual, psychological, emotional. I don't think we can fully pull those things apart. I think they're very intertwined, because the more we're learning even about somatic therapy, for example it's all rooted in our bodies, and if we don't and this is why we bring in spiritual language into our work if we don't also evolve our spirituality, we'll get stuck in our emotional development, and so we need to rely on all of those parts of ourselves in order to fully evolve, and if we don't, we'll get stuck. And yeah, and I see that again and again that that the ego, um, and even in some of the kind of self-help wellness world, we're only focusing on one part of that development and we're limiting some of the other parts and and I think that's that's a bit of a flaw in in some of our development personal development, development work?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure, and I've been in this leadership space for decades and again, I think part of you know I haven't. I've tried to evolve, to emphasize some of those things more and more, not just the traditional management or leadership elements traditional management or leadership elements because I see the effect of, you know, today's world on leaders and on organizations, and there's, there's. We have to change the solutions we're providing and the options and education and the tools that people have exposure to, because there's a lot of people that are struggling and a lot of stress and chaos and uncertainty that exists and the traditional tools just aren't going to cut it right now. Time management is a good example.

Speaker 2:

You're not really managing time, you're managing your own brain, you're trying to carve out just one section of a bigger puzzle, and unless you see the whole puzzle, that one section is not going to get you to where you need to go.

Speaker 1:

Yeah for sure. So what are the kinds of people that sign up for your leadership experiences, whether it's the holding the space or this grounded guide experience? What are the kinds of people that would be interested or that would come to you?

Speaker 2:

You know it's a really vast array of people. When we first started doing the holding space work, we tended to draw in more people that were in support roles, like in health care or in mental health or some role or hospice care, working with the dying, or people that were in the wellness industry or like yoga teachers or that kind of thing. That was in the early days that tended to be our audience, but more and more it's really diverse. Like we'll get university professors. For a while there we were attracting quite a few veterinarians, people that were working with animals, because they recognize, especially if they were working with people's pets dying, they needed to be able to hold space for the humans that were in these pets' lives, and so you know that kind of. And then from everything like I'll get medical doctors, I'll get lawyers, sometimes even, or judges there was a judge in the Netherlands that came to work with us and then people that work in many forms of leadership, whether it's the government or nonprofit or great corporations government or nonprofit or or great corporations, I think it's it's really anyone that that it finds themselves on a quest to expand their understanding.

Speaker 2:

And I remember myself I often say that I teach for the version of myself. I was 10 years ago, and you know so I I I clearly remember taking leadership courses when I worked in in the federal government and seeking more, realizing there needs to be more depth to this. There was a gap for me. It felt like my soul was not allowed to be present in that work and it was keeping me stuck in a headspace and not a holistic place, and so I really, really was looking for that, and so that's why I've started to create that, because I know that that's the quest that many people are on.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what a wonderful. It's interesting to say that you know you can look back and remember the you then and what you were seeking and what was limiting the opportunity to go forward is like, how do I do that? Where do I go, who do I, who do I get that from? And I think it's so great. And I'd love to hear a little bit more about Krista, too, in your relationship with her, because it sounds like you found a partner and you've got an experience that you're creating that allows people to have those conversations that, again, haven't always been available to us as leaders. And I think what a cool community that you can be in, an experience with a healthcare professional, yoga instructor, a veterinarian, someone that you know, an attorney, who whatever kind of eclectic group that is and to see that we all struggle with some of the same issues, regardless of the role that we're in. So who is Krista and how did you two connect?

Speaker 2:

Well, krista came on board. I can't remember when it was, it was probably 2015. At least 10 years ago, I would say. She first came on board.

Speaker 2:

I didn't, I wasn't really looking for anybody, but but she came in.

Speaker 2:

She reached out to me and says you know, do you need an assistant to help you with this work? Cause she really believed in the work and and wanted to come alongside. At the time I didn't have enough work to pay her and but then all of a sudden that was kind of my blog post went viral and I started needing a little more support. So she first came on as an assistant, but became really clear early on that she had a lot of wisdom to offer and it was much more than just kind of organizing the, the like backend, the administrative stuff. And and also, as I developed this work, I had a real growing awareness that this work needs to be rooted in community and in relationship and it's not and I'm really intentionally pushing away from what in our individualistic culture, we have a kind of a guru mentality of putting a one person up on a pedestal as the wise one and and we can we can both look to them for our answers, but then we can also tear them off the pedestal when they fail us.

Speaker 2:

And so we project some of our stuff, and I was really quite resisting that, wanting to create a community and a collective holding this work, and so I set that as an intention to bring in the people that would work alongside me, and one of the key ones has been Krista right from the start. And then we also have a teaching team and we work alongside them and they do our teaching primarily. In some of our programs they're the primary teachers, and so it's really been part of a belief system that community, this work, needs to be rooted in community and relationship, and and not I see in myself that when I'm out there as kind of the lone wolf, it's a much easier place to get stuck in ego and, you know, think it's all, all on me. Either all I'm the one that's fully, you know to be to be celebrated or fully to be blamed. You know that, that single player.

Speaker 2:

So so that was yeah. So then, almost five years ago, um, we decided to go into business together, cause her role kept increasing and I I recognized that it would be more valuable to have an organization that was, that was shared and not not not just landing on me, so yeah, so that's been kind of the trajectory of growing that yeah sounds like a wonderful journey for both of you and a great partnership of not just, you know, collaboration partnership with her, but also bringing in the concept of who can, who can add, who can add value and insight and ideas, and well, and it's.

Speaker 2:

It's one of the things that we say with the, when we talk about being a grounded guide, is that you need to be rooted in community and you need to be supported and like, witnessed and fully seen. As I say, somebody sees your potential and you also need to be held accountable. So I, if I'm, if I'm out there working alone, like I say, I can get caught in ego and nobody is calling me out on that, and and so that's one of the things Krista and I do for each other is try to see where each other's blind spots might be. Sometimes it's not easy to do that. You have to. Again, that has to come from a place of humility, but I think it needs to be really embedded into the way we build our organizations and our communities.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely so. You're modeling all the things you're teaching. We're trying intentional leaders because I think the self-awareness, the evolution, the transparency, the authenticity is important to us as human beings, but also as leaders. So when you think of yourself as an intentional leader which of course you are you just gave us one example of how you think about growing your business and offering value to community by bringing in other people. What, what are some other ways that you, um, that you are a good role model for that kind of deliberate, intentional approach.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, a lot of. It's what I've already talked about. I would say one of the the the best parts of being intentional, one of the one of the most critical parts of it is is being really practiced in honest self-reflection and and allowing your your seeing yourself fully, as much as you can. It's also about being held accountable and being in relationships where you can be held accountable. It's about having healthy boundaries and knowing when to withdraw or when not not to get involved in things, or knowing where your energy can be best placed and where it needs to be redirected. Um and and it's about just learning to be still and find solitude and be with yourself in in those ways that can really, like I say, it becomes a practice to be in spiritual relationship with yourself and the natural world and and other people, so that you are are tapping into the wisdom that's available to you within yourself and and your broader community and circle of influence.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's a beautiful thing. I love that. I have all over, I'm writing down notes and, like your quotes, I have a lot of great quotes from you. You know, being able to tap into the wisdom that's available to you, that's a beautiful thing. You know how do we do that and how do we practice that. And without that stillness, as you said now, without the deliberate, I'm going to do that and I'm going to practice that because it's really hard to do. So I honor the work that you're doing because I think it's so, so important. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

So I'm going to put in the show notes a link to your LinkedIn profile, your website and your, so people will get information about your. That's all on your website, right, like the grounded guide and the holding, the space and all the development that is available. But I just want to say thank you so much, heather, for allowing me the opportunity to learn more about what you're doing, and I feel like you know, the work that I'm doing right now is still in so much focused on the traditional leadership management training, and so I'm always so interested in what are other ways that people can. Yeah, you still need that stuff. You know good, have good practices and have good. You know tools and skills, but there's so much more to effective leadership, and the work that you're doing highlights all those meaningful things that allow us to get in touch with ourselves and become a more evolved version of ourself, which I think is so, so important, and we can do that no matter how old we are.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly, never too late.

Speaker 1:

It's always evolving. So I am grateful and honored that you took the time to be with me today and to share your messages and your work and all the gratitude that I have for the work that you are doing, because I'm going to be with me today and to share your messages and your work and all the gratitude that I have for the work that you are doing because I'm going to be following you.

Speaker 2:

Great. Thank you very much. And I should also say people can find me on Substack. I've intentionally stepped back from much of social media just because I recognize that it wasn't always healthy for me to be there and I'm more able to be intentional and fully present in my own practices if I'm not there. But I do have a sub stack. It's called attenderspacesubstackcom. People want to follow my writing.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you again so much for your time today.

Speaker 2:

Okay, thank you.

Speaker 1:

What a meaningful conversation with Heather Platt.

Speaker 1:

She's a true reminder of the power of presence and compassion and intentional leadership. Of course, I think her wisdom around holding the space invites us all to slow down, listen more deeply and not lead from a place of control, but a place of grounded guidance, and I love that particular philosophy. So, as you think about today's episode, think about for yourself how are you holding space for yourself, which is hugely important, and then for others and to be the kind of leader you want to become? Are you able to do it and do you need some practice? So thank you so much for joining us today in this episode and, if Heather's words resonated with you which I'm sure they did explore her book the Art of Holding Space and also just share this episode with someone who you think it would be helpful to, maybe who needs a little bit more grace, a little bit more groundedness in their leadership journey, maybe who needs a little bit more grace, a little bit more groundedness in their leadership journey. Until next time, stay curious, stay present and keep leading with intention.