Intentional Leaders Podcast with Cyndi Wentland

Create a Thriving Workplace Culture with Cheryl Fields Tyler

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In this episode of the Intentional Leaders Podcast, host Cyndi Wentland engages in a compelling conversation with Cheryl Fields Tyler, founder and CEO of Blue Beyond Consulting. They delve into the intricacies of building a thriving workplace culture, emphasizing the balance between high expectations and deep trust. Cheryl shares insights on supporting mid-level managers, redefining employee well-being, and viewing leadership as a sacred responsibility. This discussion offers valuable perspectives for leaders aiming to foster environments where both individuals and organizations can flourish.

Cheryl Fields Taylor
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cherylfieldsty...

Intentionaleaders:
https://www.intentionaleaders.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cyndi-wentland...

#Leadership #WorkplaceCulture #EmployeeWellBeing #TrustInLeadership #MidLevelManagement #BlueBeyondConsulting #IntentionalLeadersPodcast #CyndiWentland #CherylFieldsTyler

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Speaker 1:

All right. So today I want to welcome Cheryl to the Intentional Leaders podcast and thank you so much for taking time to be with me this afternoon.

Speaker 2:

Oh, it's a pleasure. Thank you, Cindy.

Speaker 1:

Well. So we got connected just through, I think, connecting on our websites and me hearing about your organization and we got a chance to chat a little bit about the space you're in, and I was so excited to learn about your company, learn about the kind of consulting you provide, and so today is all about exploring that and sharing it with the listeners what you do, but also, hopefully, you'll be able to share a little bit some tips and advice with them as well. Sounds great, yeah, I'm excited. So you, your firm, provides consulting and basically your overall focus and you can correct me in any way that I'm not on track, but you focus on business and people thriving and when you think about building effective organizations, what do you think are some of the best strategies or practices that have been effective for you in helping both people and the organizations thrive?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thank you so much, cindy, again, for including us in your podcast series. I think I'll just start with I mean, it's sort of like obvious, but it's interesting how often this is something that we need to kind of reinforce is that, you know, this mission that we have as a company building organizations where both the people and the business thrive. I think the first step is helping leaders, in particular, understand and think about how that actually is true in their own organization, that people are not antagonist to your business thriving. Your business thriving actually is one of the most important things we can do for our people in order for them to thrive, and just kind of closing that logic loop and that kind of emotional logic loop to help people really dig deeper and understand that actually, you know, I really truly feel that the future of business is human, of business is human. There's just nothing that we're trying to do in the world and business and in almost every business at least, that people like you and I touch right. That isn't absolutely interdependent with people being able to learn, create, innovate, execute, deliver, you know, as individuals but also as teams and as whole organizations. So if you start with the premise that we need people to be working together effectively for our business to thrive. And if you start with the premise that we're dependent, interdependent with our people and our people thriving in order for our business to thrive, it really kind of changes the game in terms of people understanding what that looks like, right, I think so.

Speaker 2:

The next piece I would say, once you kind of bring that kind of logic into a kind of a hole, that business thriving and people thriving go together, the next piece that we introduce is that, well, what do we know about human beings that creates the conditions for humans to thrive and do their best work? Right, that? And? And as it turns out, it really is. It sounds simple. It's not simple to pull off, but it really is. It amounts to two things.

Speaker 2:

If humans need to be in areas of deep trust where they feel psychologically safe, they are known as human beings. They feel like the environment is not a detriment to their well-being and, hopefully, is even a net positive to their well-being. Right, there's that deep trust. There's psychological safety and interpersonal relationships. Um, the there's a say do alignment and leadership, all of those kinds of things that create the conditions for trust.

Speaker 2:

So deep trust, on the other side, is high expectations, where there is a compelling purpose, where there's a truly kind of environment for learning and growth, that learning mindset what at Microsoft they call the learn-it-all environment versus the know-it-all environment An environment that kind of translates those expectations into stretching goals and objectives that don't just rely on individual contribution but really motivate us to work together in ways that bring people together and really create a sum greater than the parts. It's that deep trust, high expectations. When those get working together they really create this virtuous cycle where you because as we deepen trust, we can aspire higher together we're willing to take higher risks, we're willing to expose what we don't know, we're willing to learn from each other more. The higher expectations lead to higher growth mindset. We see each other in action, we see each other learning, we build trust. Through those interactions it becomes a really beautiful virtuous cycle that really creates incredible outcomes for the business, but again, it also happens to be a phenomenal place for human beings.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. And I think when we first talked and you were explaining kind of your business model and your approach and your strategies and principles, what I love about it is like that makes total sense when you think about it. When you think about like of course you need to be psychologically safe and of course leaders need to think about the people, the human, the humans as a part of the business result. And then you said something important. You said you know you have to bring that logic to the surface. Why do you think it's so hard for people? Because everything you said eloquently it makes complete sense. But why do you think for some leaders that's so hard to do or to understand?

Speaker 2:

Well, I think there's sort of two things you know, I realize in everything I'm saying are twos here. I can actually think in threes and fours too, but I am going to just mention these two things. I remember early in my career, one of my early consulting mentors gave me the two by two, the classic two by two, right. Why do things succeed? Good enough strategy, good enough implementation? How do things fail? Well, they can fail much more often than they succeed, because you can have a great strategy but poor implementation. You can have poor implementation but a great strategy. Or you can have a poor strategy and poor implementation but a great strategy, or you can have a poor strategy and poor implementation, right.

Speaker 2:

I think the question of why doesn't leader, why do leaders not do this more, given that it's I mean, I'm not saying anything that's not pretty well known.

Speaker 2:

To be honest, I think it's the same three quadrants they may have the right idea but not the right skills. Yeah, they may have some skills, but they don't necessarily apply those skills towards the right idea, but not the right skills. They may have some skills, but they don't necessarily apply those skills towards the right outcomes with people, or they don't have the skills or the right outcomes or the right ideas for implementation, and so I think it kind of goes around all of those things. Honestly, cindy, and I'm guessing probably in your work too, part of the work of working with leaders or doing leader development is, I think, helping understand where the strengths are, is where the gaps are in people's knowledge understanding and then know-how, and then helping them fill in those gaps so that they can get to that upper right-hand quadrant in my two-by-two where they have a good strategy around people and great skills around people so that they actually can create that deep trust, high expectations type of environment.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love the two by twos. Well, and thinking in twos helps too, because then we remember. But I do think about that a lot and I think recently it's really jumped out to me that so many leaders that we both work with and probably know, and ourselves, that there's this huge divide between the knowing and the doing. You know, do people know how to give feedback? Yes. Do people know how to lead some change? Probably yes. Do they do those things? No.

Speaker 1:

And what is you know what are some of those barriers and what are some of those gaps, and I think you know, within the kind of consulting that you're doing with organizations or leaders, what I love about what you just said is you're looking at a lot of things to say what's getting in the way, what's getting in the way of that between the knowledge and the doing and helping people to close that gap, and I think that's a very helpful thing.

Speaker 1:

So, and one of the things you do, speaking of kind of leading people through that process, is change management, and I, you know, and I've I've too been a, you know, facilitator of a lot of change leadership over the years, and it is remarkable how difficult it's always been I mean 20 years ago, change was hard. Change is still hard. When you look at it. There's a lot of the same barriers that still exist. But when you look at leading some of those large scale transformations which you've done, what are some of the most common challenges that you've seen during change initiatives and what do you think are some of the key things that leaders could be doing? Because I think this whole area has been forever elusive to companies.

Speaker 2:

I think the first thing I'll talk about is communication. I think leaders always underestimate I, as a leader in my own organization, underestimate the need for communication, the need for repetition, the need to get it simple, the need to kind of situate your communication in a plot line over time so that it's not just you're here, okay, you're here, okay, you're here. Now you have to create that plot line so that people really understand. I often think about the leader's job in communication is separating the signal from the noise, like what is the thing, what are the things I really need you to pay attention to and that we need to pay attention to together in order to get through this change process and to accomplish our goals? And the truth is it has become harder because there's so much more noise. There is so much more noise. It has gotten. You know, and you know I've never talked with another, with an organization at any level, whether it's, you know, vp, senior director, director, manager, go down the front line that said that that change failed because I didn't get enough emails about it. No, no, we're not. I mean that is necessary but it's not sufficient. It's that personal communication and also we feel like in the environment that we're in now, where you know there's so much noise, it's gotta be human, it's gotta be compelling and it's gotta be visual. There's so much noise, it's got to be human, it's got to be compelling and it's got to be visual, because there's just too much other information flooding our inboxes, flooding our devices, flooding our world, and so communication and that separating signal from noise is the first thing I would put on the top of the list.

Speaker 2:

I think the second one is one I mentioned a moment ago, but I'll mention it in this context in a different way, which is growth mindset. I think you know, and I'm going to kind of come at it from two angles. I think the first angle is that for organizations to really change, the first thing to remember is it's human. Organizations don't change, people change, and so you can't create an environment of changing humans if you don't create the environment for growth mindset. And there are some very effective ways to create growth mindset in organizations, both by your messaging, by your role modeling, by how you convene teams together, how you learn, all of those kinds of things. So I won't go into the details there, but I think there's very good ways to do that and, very importantly underneath that is making sure that you don't communicate that. I mean honestly.

Speaker 2:

Cindy, I'm sure you've seen the same change frameworks I have so many change frameworks. Frameworks I have so many change frameworks make human experience of change the enemy of change. So the fact that humans are feeling resistant or humans are feeling loss, or humans are feeling that that's kind of like a problem to overcome versus a human condition that we are going through together and it creates these oppositional factions within change. I think that's the other thing I would say in addition to kind of creating that growth mindset around change is shift your change framework or change model to not make humans the problem but to make humans the solution and understand with empathy and with candor what's happening for people and also helping them understand what's happening for the business that necessitates this change and why you need them on board. Again, that's a very human process, but so much of the change management we do ends up feeling in the organization again like just another email and just another system implementation.

Speaker 2:

You know when, again, anything that's going to be that has a big price tag on it. That has a lot of risk. You need more. The more you have that, the more human dimension you need is really important. And then the third thing I would say is to really engage folks at every level of the organization to be part of the change. You know, yes, change leadership is a hugely important, critical mission critical you can't do without it. But you also need change champions in the middle of the organization, in the front line of the organization, whether it's you know, and leaving people out is the biggest way to making them feel resistant. So if you can enlist their engagement, enlist their support, enlist their motivation and enlist them in creating circles of influence to help move the change forward, you'll be better off.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. Again, I think I just love about the work that you do, cheryl, is you? You're getting at some fundamental, fundamental areas that are so essential and and you keep bringing it back to the human experience and to the psychological safety of it all, and that people are. People are the thing, they're not they're. They're not. They're not the obstacle, they're not the problem, they're not the you know that the problem. They are part of the experience of operating a business and creating change and creating those results. And how do you engage with people in a whole different way? Read after COVID and it was about how people used to be seen. As you know, the cogs in the production wheel, they're just a part of the manufacturing of whatever it was, even if it wasn't a manufactured product. And you're talking about the opposite, that people are the experience, people are part of that, deeply ingrained. And how do you connect with them wholly and fully to do whatever it is your business is doing?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the other thing I probably should emphasize here, cindy and I'm sure you have this experience too I don't want to sound like a Pollyanna that I think all people you know like it's not the truth is is that creating these kinds of environments that are good for humans and that are good for business means being rigorous about performance management, setting high standards, providing candid and effective feedback and moving people out of the organization if they can't be successful, if they can't contribute. And I want to make it clear that being a leader that can create an organization that's great for humans doesn't mean it's great for every single human on the planet. It's got to be the people that really are motivated, excited and equipped to be a part of the journey of your company, and that, inevitably, is going to shift over time. There's going to be people that fit at certain times that don't at others, and you know, honestly, there's nothing that will actually erode trust faster than having poor performers in the organization for a long time right Because?

Speaker 2:

Or erode high expectations sooner. So it's it's what I'm talking about. A lot of people talk about well, that's soft. Actually, I think about it. It's the soft stuff. That is really the hard stuff in organizations right.

Speaker 2:

It's differentiating performance, it's providing candid feedback. It's it's actually creating an environment where people are, um, have the uh challenge to do their best and are not given sort of a pass if they're not able to. So I just wanted to add that piece that it's really important. It's not soft, it's the soft stuff. That's the hard stuff that in many cases not in every, but in many cases it's truly an unlock for the business performance.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, totally agree. It was interesting. So I was doing a whole class last week on accountability and in the afternoon one of the leaders said well, now that we're moving to this kind of soft culture, squishy kind thing, and I thought we're not doing that and I, you know not, and I thought what I was really curious like what about accountability? Accountability setting people up to be successful and answerable, and expectations can be really high, and then you approach accountability with kindness and compassion. It doesn't mean you're letting people off the hook at all, you know, and and I think we owe it to each other to have that level of accountability because, as you said, it builds think we owe it to each other to have that level of accountability because, as you said, it builds trust. And so I was really curious when she said that, like what her mindset was.

Speaker 1:

But I think sometimes when we talk about, you know, human beings and kindness and empathy and compassion, that people translate that into we're not holding people accountable and we're not tackling those tough issues. And I totally agree with you. I don't think. I think those things can go hand in hand and that they're aligned and not everybody that works in an organization is the right fit. They don't either want to do those things, or they can't do those things, or they choose not to. So I mean think of people that don't want to have a growth mindset in an organization that needs that. It doesn't mean they're a bad person, but it may mean that they don't fit into that organizational culture. They don't want to grow and learn.

Speaker 2:

So I think that's an important message.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So you said, in terms of change and change leadership, some of the key things were communication, and you talked about that. It has to be compelling, there's got to be a vision with it, there's got to be clarity to it, helping to get rid of the noise as a part of the communication, so there's more focus. I heard the growth mindset and that people are continuing to learn, and then, third, that there's inclusion, so getting people to be champions and influencers at all different stages of the organization. So some great strategies for change management. I love that, so you do. Part of the work of your company is cultural development, and I mentioned that up front in terms of some of the work that you're doing to help companies transform. And when you talk about even that deep trust and high expectations, that's a framework that you use right. So how do you? How do you use that when you think about employee engagement or implementing something like that, or even measuring it? How would you go about doing that or helping leaders to do that?

Speaker 2:

Sure, yeah. So I mean, a lot of times, when organizations call us, when leaders call us, and the kind of the presenting issue is culture, the first thing they're trying to think about is how do we change our culture to be more, more reliably high performing? How do we create an environment where our culture is one of the engines of business growth, one of the engines of business innovation, one of the engines of, you know, talent development? I mean all the different reasons why companies think that, you know, their companies could perform more effectively. And so one of the things that we're always then curious about is well, what are the conditions that people then are in in the organization that either are supporting those aims or are in some ways, you know us understand, at least in those two really fundamental bedrock realities for what it takes for human flourishing and human thriving and thus business thriving? What are those conditions?

Speaker 2:

So we evaluate trust, we evaluate expectations, and we do that primarily through qualitative means, so through interviews, focus groups, those kinds of things. We do quantitative surveys too, but we have found that most companies have a lot of quantitative data that's been telling them oftentimes for quite some time that things are not working the way they want them to. So another quantitative survey is usually not what's going to be illuminating, but we can do that if we need to. But it's usually through listening to people and asking who are we when we're at our best and then who are we when we're not at our best and what is what's shifting there? And you almost always, if you ask those open-ended questions not always, but if you almost always you hear about elements of trust and you hear about elements of expectations and you hear about how they're disconnected in the organization. So that that's one way that we do that. And another way that we do that is in really trying to help leaders, and for us it's I think the C-suite is essential and it's often better if it's like the top 100 or some other kind of realistic sense of critical mass of senior leaders is to really help them reflect on the weather they're creating the organization.

Speaker 2:

Of course, I don't know if you're familiar with that metaphor, but I really like it a lot that leaders create the weather within their organizations and you know sometimes, yeah, so that often means bringing that focus group feedback to them in a way that they can really think about and helping them reflect on their own leadership behaviors. How is the weather they're creating within their organizations and their teams inadvertently creating these obstacles that people are talking about? And where are they not creating? Where are they supporting the good things emerging? And then coming out of all of that, together with leaders and with the organization, with an action plan of how do we dial up those strengths and then how do we overcome these obstacles? And you know, depending on the situation, it can be.

Speaker 2:

You know different strategies in different situations, but that's really how we do it and for us, you know, whether or not we're using the term deep trust, high expectations, explicitly throughout that process is often really whether or not that really resonates with leadership. But that's really what we're working on. You know, it can be that those concepts can be voiced in different ways and different values, language in companies and different ways that they talk about their performance frameworks, the way they talk about their talent, philosophy, even like an EVP. All of those different things are artifacts of what it is how we think about people around here, and so we are looking at those things to see. You know, what are they kind of espoused philosophies, and then how is that really being lived in the organization? And if there's an opportunity to really dial up more effectively the messaging around who we, who we really want to be for people, we address that as a part of the process as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that sounds. I think it's so interesting that you're getting at you're getting at the narrative more than the data, that the data probably exists somewhere. So you're getting the stories and when you think of that and bringing those stories to life, to look at the weather map, how much resistance do you run into with leaders who don't want to know the weather they're creating? Like do you run? Into leaders that are thinking like I don't. I don't do that. I don't want to hear that. I don't.

Speaker 2:

It's actually weirdly, weirdly, weirdly weirdly. It's very. I have found personally that people have a lot harder time dismissing it in stories and quotes than they have in a manager dashboard from an employee engagement survey. I mean, the engagement survey probably has the same thing and where we can combine both, it's a kind of a really great combination right, yes both.

Speaker 2:

It's a kind of a really great combination, right, yes? But? And then the other part is in a group process, is really having people in a room together, or at least in small groups, if you can't get the top 100 to really reflect on what are the voices of our people telling us? I think this is another thing I already talked about this earlier in the change context where a lot of times in these situations it's like well, we would be this kind of company if our people could just get on board. And then you actually hear from the people that they actually want more accountability, they want more empowerment, but there's always a lot more to work with, I find, than most senior leaders think there is in their organization in terms of the desire to be the type of organization that they're trying to create.

Speaker 2:

And then it's like then how do we get after the obstacles? Right, how do we get after the obstacles? Sometimes the obstacles are we have frontline managers that are just way overextended, just as an example, who really have no time in really truly allotted in their work life to do the work that we're asking them to do as people leaders.

Speaker 2:

They're doing so many other things that could be a very powerful intervention. Another thing may be we have a lot of internal competition within our teams that are creating an internal focus versus an external focus in how we're trying to manage critical programs and priorities. We need more cross-functional governance that helps us sort out these things, so that we don't drive conflict down but we actually ensure alignment at the top, so that our teams can actually work together in an orchestrated way. Another one that we see pretty often is that the work of the organization is inherently cross-functional, but we do not have cross-functional mechanisms for communication and alignment, or it's the have cross-functional mechanisms for communication and alignment.

Speaker 2:

And so or at least or it's the only cross-functional real mechanism is at the top of the organization. So all of the biggest challenges get delegated up and there is, you know, and there's so much waiting in the organization for those things to get solved. So these are the kinds of things that you know we find are often among the most helpful in organizations when we're trying to shift culture is to illuminate these types of things and then put real strategies and plans in place, and then you know programs and projects to address these kinds of things.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's really. I love the. I think that's really. I love the way you're kind of drilling down on how to create the case for change for those senior leaders, that the numbers tell one story but the humans telling another story is influencing them to look at those connections and disconnections. And I don't know that there's a company I've ever worked with that's really great at cross-functional collaboration. Because people are too busy trying to get done what they need to get done in their own little world and it sets then us up to compete with each other rather than to collaborate with each other.

Speaker 1:

And how do we foster that collaboration? But, as you said, it just doesn't happen organically. There has to be systems and processes in place and strategies in place to help do that. And it's got to start at that top, being cognizant of those connections, absolutely, absolutely. The other thing that I wanted to mention so when you think about the gap analysis from leaders, kind of when they come to you and they say I want a stronger culture, what would be, what are some of the things that you hear leaders or companies saying is the biggest gap they perceive in their culture? Whether that's real or not, what would a leader or someone at the top say is their gap?

Speaker 2:

Well, it varies a lot, Of course. The situations are so different and a lot of times it depends on what the external environment is asking of the organization.

Speaker 2:

right, but the kinds of things I've heard a lot in my career is complacency, you know not a sense of urgency, a lack, a lack of cross-functional cooperation, too much internal competition, a sense of sort of complacency, or you know just like where's that fire in the belly? You know we want people to be more, you know, kind of take more initiative. Another one is a growth mindset, like really focused on growth in terms of, you know, sales growth, customer growth, you know that whole type of thing, innovation. You know these are types of things that we hear a lot about. The other kinds of things that I think are a little less what's the right word like business focused. I think all of those kind of have their roots in a business case. You know that is a, you know comes out of the business, which I actually think all good culture transformation really starts with the business case. I don't want to say otherwise but the other time.

Speaker 2:

Other thing I hear sometimes is we want a culture that's more attractive to the kind of talent that we need, right? So I've grown up in Silicon Valley and you know a lot of companies think about culture as being primarily their calling card for the kind of talent that they want to, you know, attract and retain. And while I think that is a really important piece, I actually think sometimes those types of culture initiatives end up being a little bit more of like a kind of what's the what's on the menu for people that they're going to want to choose versus what's really right for our business and I. So if we get those kinds of calls, of course, what we're trying to do is help. What is the overlap between what people want and what, and what the people who we want we want them to be doing for our business?

Speaker 2:

Like that overlap is much more important right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, agreed, yeah, and you're kind of getting to the purpose of it, but also, then, probably, the sustainability of it. I mean, when you know, I think, as companies got out of COVID and trying to entice people back into the offices and luring people in with the kinds of you know things to put into the culture of the organization, to incent people to be there disconnected from the purpose, disconnected from the real why, and those kinds of things I think about you know, it's almost like utilizing extrinsic motivators to get people to be more intrinsically invested in the company, which doesn't work and isn't sustainable. Yeah, so, as you, as you go forward into 2025, and think about you know organizations that you're working with now and what, what are you most hopeful about for this year in terms of companies and leaders? What's, what's? What keeps you like, oh, I see, I see hope on the horizon and change. What is it that you see?

Speaker 2:

um, I mean, I am not. Um, I am not an overly skeptical person about technology, and I'm also not a person who thinks technology is going to save the world. I am also I am very excited about what's happening with AI. I think there's a lot of promise for human flourishing in AI and I think there's tremendous, tremendous risks. I also feel excited about what this next phase of technology innovation is going to mean in the business world and you know, having old enough now that I've gone through everything from the beginning of email and internet, I'm aging myself here. I was a baby when that was happening, but you know, I mean like yeah to you know all of the, all of the.

Speaker 2:

You know, uh, you know mainframes and you know desktops and laptops and ethernet cords all around the office.

Speaker 2:

To you know the world we have now like right, and you know I just know, having gone through that a number of times that there's just we're just right on the cusp of so many things changing and I truly believe the future is human and that if we can do the right things with these technologies, at least as much of the time as we do the wrong things with these technologies, that actually it's going to be very empowering and supportive of a future that is better for more people and that is better for business. As I said at the beginning, I deeply believe to the fiber of my being that great businesses are great for people and people are great for build great businesses. So I I'm actually optimistic cautiously optimistic about how AI is going to be a part of that future, and I'm really excited and hopeful to be working with companies that are trying to figure out how technology fits in with their overall human capital strategy. I think it's going to be a really interesting time to be doing the kind of work we do.

Speaker 1:

Yes, absolutely Absolutely, and I think having that, having the balance of you know, it seems like there's so much when people are driven by fear and holding something back, like okay, we're afraid of this, so we don't want to talk about it or don't want to use it or don't want to like avoidance, is never going to work. But being curious and insightful and practical, and knowing that you can't at some point we can't stop the train that we're on, but how to do that in a way that's thoughtful and, as you said, gets us to a better spot, and what that looks like, and what are the decisions that need to be made to get people to that better spot where it can be used for good, and for good of, as you said, the human beings and the business as well. I think that's a really fascinating journey. I think we're going to learn a lot this year as well.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, indeed, I love the space that you're in and I think your framework around trust and expectations and just helping people to be the best humans they can within an organization, to be the best organization they can, really resonates with me. So I really enjoy listening to how you've built your business and how you continue to be successful in this space. It's really Thank you, Cindy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Thank you so when you think about yourself as a leader, your role model for your company, for your business, for your clients, and obviously named my company Intentional Leaders because I think being deliberate as a leader is so important and all the things you've talked about today are about doing those things right Intentionally. So how you know, when you think about yourself, how do you, how do you think about yourself being intentional as a leader?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know it's been so interesting and I shared with you at the beginning of this podcast. I've just announced my company's being acquired and you know that has been a very intentional journey, but it wasn't my first choice. What I thought I wanted, what I did want, was for the company to continue beyond my career and beyond my lifetime. That was my explicit, you know, goal for many years. And then I realized that that actually was not what the people in my organization I mean talk about the people in the business thrive. I saw that there was some disconnect there, right, that that wasn't actually going to work. So then what I had to really think about was okay, what intention should I set then for the future?

Speaker 2:

And so what I did was is I I, you know, uh, with the support of my, my husband and some other key people, just through conversation, I set five key criteria of what I was looking for in a new home, and I was just very clear that if I didn't find something that really met those criteria, then it would help me find a different path one way or another. And you know that power of intention was so important. I mean, I tend to be wired that way, but I'm so grateful to the universe, to whatever kind of helped me kind of get to a place, because it really really made this. Actually, I mean, it was a very challenging process in the sense of just how much work it is to go through a process like this, talking to so many suitors, going through so many conversations and all the due diligence work et cetera. But we feel like we've really landed in a very good place and my team is in a very. Every single one of my people has decided to go with us.

Speaker 2:

That is so exciting yeah. So, yeah, that is so exciting.

Speaker 1:

Wow yeah.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, 50, 50, 48 people going to this new organization, bdo USA.

Speaker 2:

So it's very exciting, cindy, and I guess I'm bringing that up in the context of intention, because I feel like the intention made all the difference there. I set the intention clearly and, even though it was not my first intention, realizing that you know, kind of like plan a harder isn't working Well, what's the higher intention? What's the what's the intention beyond that plan a? That really is the thing that I want and it for me, it was like I want, I want my people to be in a place where they're, they can thrive, I want the business to thrive with and for those people.

Speaker 2:

I want our clients to have a great experience, I want them to get even more than they have now. I want, you know, our work to be valued and to and for us to be able to help others within that other organization thrive. So the point I'm making is is that I think intention unlocks possibilities and once you're in that process, you're in a learning process and I really, truly believe that people that are learning are going to outperform others anytime. So it's been a tremendous learning process for me, but it's been a really rewarding one.

Speaker 1:

Wow, that is a very inspiring story Because when you think of your own business and the passion and the commitment to it and you had a certain vision for what you wanted to happen, but to face that at some point and say that isn't going to work, it's really courageous to step out of that and to say, okay, how do I think about this differently. So I so admire your ability to navigate through that so thoughtfully and strategically and gracefully and and happily. You know you've landed in this place. You know, and if all your employees are, are going with you, that says a lot about your leadership in this process.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, cindy. It's not been an easy process, that I wouldn't say. That, happily, sort of was the label over the whole thing. But yeah, I feel like, again, intention helped me get. There is the point. It helped me get to a place where I feel good, my people feel good, I feel really good about the partner, I think our partner feels really good about us. So it's, I think intention really is so powerful. So I love that that's your work and that you work on that with leaders, because I think that it really is a huge part of unlocking the potential of us as individuals, but us as teams and us as you know, organizational, you know, in our organizational life, intention makes such a difference 100%, and I think what's so fascinating about that is and you said something important because you said it you know it wasn't a difference 100%.

Speaker 1:

And I think what's so fascinating about that is and you said something important because you said you know it wasn't a happy not throughout the whole thing. You know there was probably moments of extreme, like disappointment or you know, you know discomfort or lack of alignment, and when you think about all those things, I think what I also love about intention is intention isn't easy. Intention is a path and it's a, you know, but it doesn't mean it's not going to be uncomfortable, awkward, disappointing, sad, but you're still going a certain place, and I loved your quote about it unlocks possibilities because you're thinking of the bigger picture and not and maybe that path looks completely different than what you thought, but you still go there anyway. Right, that's the courage that comes with intentionality, I think from my perspective. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Oh, thanks, cindy, that's great, that's great Well.

Speaker 1:

Cheryl, I'm excited to hear more about. I know you're going to send me some information, which I will include in the show notes about where your organization is going, but I just want to again thank you for taking the time out of what I know is a very busy schedule for you. We've been trying to connect for a while to share your message and to share what your organization does, how you help transform organizations and leaders and create a better platform for the human beings. Yay.

Speaker 2:

And for business both to go together.

Speaker 1:

Indeed, I know I'm with you, I'm with you, but to go to that psychological safety and trust and all the messages that you have and still help businesses thrive, I think that's a beautiful message that you're balancing both and that you're giving equal importance to both of those things.

Speaker 2:

That's great. Thanks so much, Cindy. We really appreciate it. Thanks for having us on. Thank you very much.