Becoming Deliberately You

Can understanding your strengths and values unlock your true potential? Join us as we welcome Sarah Viana, founder of Deliberately You, who transitioned from a successful HR career to a fulfilling journey in coaching. Sarah shares how her early experiences in a supportive organization sparked her passion for people development, ultimately leading her to immerse herself in a coaching community. 

Discover the intriguing dynamics between strengths and values through the Values in Action (VIA) Inventory. Sarah provides personal insights and practical examples, revealing how strengths like kindness can reflect deeply held values.  Learn about habit stacking as a method to develop lesser strengths by leveraging more dominant ones, and how balancing honesty with social intelligence can enhance effective and empathetic communication.

Maximizing leadership potential often hinges on meaningful connections and effective management of time and energy.  The role of trust in leadership, aligning individual growth with organizational needs, and the necessity of difficult conversations are explored in depth. Sarah also highlights the importance of authenticity, presence, and intentionality in fostering impactful relationships, advocating for a life lived deliberately and with purpose.

Find Sarah here:  Sarah (Walsh) Viana, ACC | LinkedIn

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Transcript

Cyndi: 0:00

So a couple months back I interviewed Karen Knabb for a podcast and we had a delightful discussion and we have since started a book club and she continues to connect me with super awesome people. The most recent was Sarah Viana, and Sarah is a HR professional turned coach and she started an organization called Deliberately you. Now Karen thought, ooh, anyone who has the name Intentional Leaders would probably be interested in someone who has a company called Deliberately You. So she connected Sarah and I. We did have a delightful conversation and now I am interviewing her today. She's all about positive psychology and about using your strengths and values in your leadership and just as a human being. Welcome Sarah today on Intentional Leaders Podcast. I am so excited to welcome Sarah.

Sarah: 0:56

Thank you for that warm welcome and it is a pleasure to be with everyone today and looking forward to sharing more about my journey and, hopefully, some helpful tips along the way, absolutely.

Cyndi: 1:07

I know you will, Sarah, and you and I had a chance to connect previously and talk a little bit about your business, which I love the name of, of course, so deliberately you.

Sarah: 1:18

Yes, thank you for that. Thank you for that. Definitely, a lot of thought went into that name to really define what I do and who I want to connect with.

Cyndi: 1:27

What I thought was so cool about it is, of course, I'm about intention and you're about being deliberate, and I thought we are kindred spirits for sure. So I love that about the name of your organization and I was excited to learn more about you. You started out in the HR field and then after about 20 years I think it was then you veered towards coaching. What prompted that change from HR and being in a consulting role to going into coaching?

Sarah: 1:56

Great question. There's so many pivotal moments along the way that really guided me in that direction. I was very fortunate, early on in my career, to work for an organization that had an eye toward coaching before it was as frequently heard about as it is today. You've been in the industry for quite some time and I'm sure you've seen such a drastic shift where it was something you really had to explain because no one had heard of it. Yes, and now it's like everyone's heard of it, but it's, how do you really define what it means to you and the clients that you're hoping to connect with, because it's definitely evolving as an industry. But early on in my career, even though my focus was on human resources, my role was always on people development and the appreciation for people and what they brought forth in their experiences and how each and every one of us learn and grow along the way. I was very fortunate that I had individuals that were coming into the organization, that were fresh, starting their career out of college, and so they were going through all these life transitions and learning a ton and just really navigating the ebb and flow of that, of their career being important but also personal life changing, you know, first time in their life that they needed to actually plan, because before that their education system didn't afford it, or their parents, yeah. To then also working with executives.

Sarah: 3:21

We always in the organization I was a part of prided ourselves on really becoming more strategic business partners and really aligning. And so the concept of coaching became very familiar to me early on in my career and so I dabbled in it, I would say informally, not as a focus coach, but understood the value of letting that individual take their journey, asking questions, being curious, not always coming up with the solution but helping hold space for people to define that. For years I was intrigued by it and wanted to do more and more of it, just kept, like many of us do, just kicking the can down the road and not quite going there, staying and letting my career unravel in the way that it was guiding me, but not really fully jumping into coaching. It was about five years ago that I decided, in order for me to move in that direction and not continue to delay it, I needed to immerse myself in a coaching community. So I decided to do that by gaining my certification in coaching. Yeah, that really helped kickstart that whole direction.

Cyndi: 4:30

It sounds like you had a really strong foundation and you had a really strong mindset about people development and about growth and development. So in the HR space, it sounds like you were also very specialized in that area and wanting to make that kind of difference for people.

Sarah: 4:45

Absolutely. Again, I was very fortunate because the HR role I had was really in the service industry, so the focus was always on people I think of all the roles that I applied for in leaving college. Had I been offered some of the other roles and industries that weren't service related, I think that my career would have had a lot more peaks and valleys to it. Yeah, it was one of those things that I was fortunate, right time, right place and really aligned in a way that allowed me to flourish as a person, allowed me to explore many opportunities and for me to just really sink into that desire to help people be their best and be fortunate that the organization really aligned with that, like I did.

Cyndi: 5:27

And you mentioned having a community around you, and that's such an important piece to taking the leap into starting your own business is having people around you. Good for you for doing that.

Sarah: 5:38

Thank you. Yeah, it's been a really unpredictable but beautiful kind of unraveling of it, and I was thinking of that as we were coming into the conversation and all the different things that I've done over time in my career although I've really only worked for two organizations in my HR career over that span, but there was not any one year that ever looked the same. Sure, when I think of what I did not necessarily deliberately, but just letting it unfold was that I had enough of a plan to move forward and then I just stayed open to the journey of where it took me, both in the relationships that I was forming and the content and the focus areas that I was able to get exposed to.

Cyndi: 6:23

That's fantastic. It really sets a stage for also, I think, how you are helping people to be more deliberate about who they are is because you are deliberately becoming who you want to be. So by you going through that parallel journey and understanding the risk, the courage, the awkwardness but the joy in that journey, I think you can then be really effective at helping other people through it. Yeah, you've experienced it yourself, like I'm deliberately becoming me too.

Sarah: 6:55

Absolutely, and I appreciate you saying that. I think when I was in my coaching program that I started about five years ago, part of the program I was a part of is that you have to really think about the model that you would bring your clients through when coaching. Although there's a lot known like GROW are known, etc. They really want you to sink into your own style and I think that that model really came from how I saw myself going through or appreciating the coaches that were in my life and my career. My model really has to do with what I always envisioned as more of a lighthouse.

Sarah: 7:31

I think we all have these signals, these pulls, these things that are alerting us, whether they're interests or they might be things that are challenging to us or they might be things we're curious to explore. And then from there, with my clients, I really like to take them through that exploration of like why is that? Why is that thought or idea or concepts keep surfacing, yeah, and then it's kind of how you navigate it and I love the terminology navigate, because it doesn't have to just be point A to point B. I think of us going on a journey, whether it's on a ship or it's in a car, we have intentions of going A to B and we can stop along the way, we can pull over, we can take in the scenery. So being open enough but kind of setting that direction to hopefully either have a greater understanding of what we need or to start moving forward to achieving that goal, but know that man might need to be a little bit flexible and agile along the way.

Cyndi: 8:49

I think we would travel well together, I agree, I agree. So, arah, one of the things that you mentioned to me when we talked earlier. It really is connected to your idea of having kind of a lighthouse, a beacon or something that you're helping clients go towards. But you talked about people filling their cup and for you it was about how do you help people focus on their strengths and values, in particular, when you think about leadership development, how do you see those two things supporting effective leadership?

Sarah: 9:21

So much that can be added there. So let me try to give a snippet on that front. I think that as leaders, first and foremost, we have a responsibility to understand ourselves so that the people that are working with us and for us understand what not only you need as the leader, but what is needed in the organization from them. Yeah, I really believe as individuals I mean leaders are people too right, hr people are people too. I always say we have needs and we need attention. Exactly, we have the whole range of things that we experience ith that. I think that, as a leader, if you understand your own strengths, you understand your own drivers, you're able to communicate with greater clarity, you're able to motivate, you're able to give that certainty to your team, even if it's in times of turmoil or times of change within the organization, and really able to build that trust, because when you know your style, then you show up more consistently and then people are able to really understand how to embrace that, how to respond to it and respond to you in that way.

Cyndi: 10:31

Excellent point because that consistency and that predictability of the experience of going to your manager, having a leader who's going to show up in a consistent way, I think alleviates a lot of, as you said, uncertainty but also the stress associated with that. That relationship is so key to our engagement and loyalty and if you don't have that predictability, it can be uncertain like should I go talk to her today or not?

Cyndi: 10:57

Can I reach out, and that's very discomforting, especially for people that are newer in their role or in their experience level when they need the answers and they need that help and support.

Sarah: 11:09

Absolutely. To me, that is the starting point and I think that oftentimes, as leaders in an organization, we have been risen to that level because we've been very tactically able to hone our craft and our niche area and, depending on where you sit right now, you may not have necessarily received a lot of training or opportunity to have that self-reflection, to be able to utilize tools and have resources to know that. And that's one of the things I really enjoy and see immediately this value that's brought to my clients when they just take that time to step back and understand why they have been doing certain things in a certain way or how they might be able to optimize one of their strengths differently to get the results from their team that they're needing on that, because there's more clarity from that standpoint.

Cyndi: 12:01

Yeah, you bet it brings it up from the subconscious level to the conscious level, where you're actually not just applying it, but I think you're also increasing your confidence and kind of creating that superpower from it. Absolutely, I'm good at this thing and I can strengthen it even more, so what are some of the strategies you use to help people?

Sarah: 12:37

I either identify their strengths or identify their values, tools and resources, because my style really is that there's a lot of experiences that I've had, there's a lot of tools and resources that I use, but I always want to be expanding, for my clients, my tool belt, so that I can be present with you and understand what might serve you best in this moment, given the challenges that you might be facing, or what you're looking to reach for next, or where you are just in navigating the ebb and flow of life and roles and responsibilities, not just professionally, but personally too.

Sarah: 13:10

Yeah, you bet, one of the tools that I use although there are several that I can lean into is the VIA Character Strengths. I like it because it just allows you to start to see your strengths and values in action and it allows us to. Many times, I find with clients that when they see especially that, okay, I have all these strengths within me, all these 24 strengths within me, yet some of them feel more effortless, more energizing, more essential, often that's their top five. For example, my top strength is honesty. If you told me I could not be honest, I would feel like you just gave me a pretty severe disability, because I just operate authentically in everything that I do. I still also have to hone that, because I can over-utilize it or under-utilize it.

Sarah: 14:00

And I experienced this like my clients, and our goal is to optimize our strength on that front.

Sarah: 14:06

Sure, equally, I've learned now an appreciation and with many of my clients they see this where there's strengths that might feel in lesser concentration, it's in there.

Sarah: 14:17

If that was your every day, having to use that at the forefront would not feel natural immediately, but you can start to call upon it and bring it to the surface and start to move it into taking less effort, happening a little bit more with ease because you're putting it into practice, just like we think of working out, working out those muscles from that standpoint. So with my clients, what it's helped them do is really see what are their natural tendencies. How does that then show up in the things that they're doing, the goals that they're setting with their team or within the organization, and how might they really embrace their strengths and maybe lean on others and their team, because I've had plenty of leaders that that expand this into their teams. Yeah, I can facilitate that and do facilitate that with many clients so that now they have this common language and really understand how to utilize those strengths in a way that's very complementary to each other.

Cyndi: 15:16

Excellent description. So you mentioned VIA and, for people that aren't familiar with that, that's the Values in Action Inventory. When you think of that assessment, Sarah, it is talking about values in a way, but it is talking about strengths. Do you see it more as a values inventory, a strengths inventory or both?

Sarah: 15:36

It blends for myself. Personally, I'll use myself as an example to be able to speak freely and not to have my clients listen to this and wonder if I'm speaking about them.

Sarah: 15:46

So one of my top strengths is kindness and I also identify as kindness being one of my values, so there can be definitely intermingling of them.

Sarah: 15:56

I think the key with strengths, even within that assessment it's not a hard and fast rule.

Sarah: 16:02

It can change in time where I feel like your values usually stay pretty true to yourself, I feel like my values have been very consistent for many, many years around kindness, around connection and kind of the safety like prudence piece to me of like assessing things.

Sarah: 16:24

But my strengths I feel like do evolve based on the environment that I'm at, some of the maturity that I've experienced over the years, of course, and I look at strengths as like a great starting point. I don't think anything like that is an absolute, but it becomes again a tool that you can leverage if you feel stuck or you're kind of curious of like how to work through something a little bit differently. I often resurface that with my clients that might have taken the assessment a couple months back and their experience. And then what if we got curious about how your strengths might help you through this? And when you look at it it's like oh, this could be a navigation, like a start of, like a roadmap to do something with this. And yes, that does align and it just gives a little bit more of a direction from that standpoint.

Cyndi: 17:03

Sure, that makes sense. And when you think about, as you said, sometimes values are very stable. The things that you care about now you're going to care about in five years or 10 years, unless your life situation alters. But I think that's a nice way to think about strengths. Sometimes people see strengths as static, like I'm good at this thing, but how do you get good at other things? And being conscious of what you want to get good at and examine it, and I do believe in that kind of growth mindset that people can become stronger at whatever they want to. You know you may have some natural abilities or things that you've honed over time, but I think there's also some. You know, when you think about becoming deliberately who you want to be, that there may be some areas that you aren't particularly strong at, but you still have that opportunity to lean into those things and get stronger at them.

Sarah: 17:59

Absolutely, I completely align with that. I think of strengths like obviously we're talking about like character strengths and some you can't necessarily see them. You can experience them with me but you can't exactly see them. But I always try to compare it to physical side of strengths, like there were a time in my life that I had strength in different areas of my body than I do today.

Sarah: 18:18

It evolves and that's life circumstances that have contributed to my life, having three children have changed where the strengths are in my body. Some personal habits of life, having different tugs and pulls of time, have impacted my ability to be physically active or less at times on that front. So I think of strengths in that way. If I wanted to have stronger you know strength in my arms, I know what I need to do, right, I need to maybe do some planks, really pay attention to that, hone into ways to do that over time. Likewise with my character strengths. If my strength of gratitude is lower or my strength of creativity or social intelligence is lower, I can look at that, understand that and say how can I marry that with maybe even some of my more natural, essential top character strengths and really say how do I bring those things together? Kind of habit stack. I do that a lot with my clients to bring that into reality.

Sarah: 19:18

One of my favorite ones because I like to pick on honesty, because it's my top strength and I tend to find myself connected with a lot of people that honesty is in their top strengths. But sometimes we all know the strength of honesty can be overused If someone's too brutally honest. We've seen that from young children and sometimes much older folks that we say they can quote unquote, get away with it. I don't know that anyone should be able to get away with being too brutally honest, but I love marrying that with social intelligence. It's like what would it look like if we pause and thought about what the impact of that and how that would really bring that person along? We still want to remain true to being honest and transparent.

Sarah: 19:55

I'm a huge advocate for that, and there is a way to make sure that we're thinking about how we're delivering, because our goal is not to curve the message or soften the message. I think that's all got a bad rap over time. It's more of I want to be able to communicate it in a way that's going to land, so that we get to a better spot together. That is one of the things that I like using strengths and assessments in this way, not to pigeonhole people, but to give like that language and framework to start to think a little bit differently, because oftentimes what they're bringing to coaching is something that they're curious to see. How might they either make a change or make an enhancement or grow in a certain way. So it's helpful to break it down with that tool.

Cyndi: 20:41

I love assessments for that reason, as a starting point, as a framework, as a benchmark or a baseline or a way to think about one aspect of, as you said, just creating that self-awareness in a certain dimension. It sounds like you have a lot of different tools in your toolbox to help with that. But I want to go back to something you said about habit stacking, because I think that's a really neat way to think about. I mentioned to you before we started that I was in a leadership class this morning and I was asking leaders and they were all over the board in terms of experience. But what I did ask them is what do you want more of from people around you? Just like you could wave a magic wand, what would you want?

Cyndi: 21:19

And one thing that stood out to me was one of the leaders said I want people just to be more curious. And I said well, you know, tell me more about that. And he's like well, if people were more curious, they'd ask more questions, they think things through, they'd wonder why it's like that, how can we improve it. And he just said that curiosity. And I thought what an interesting thing to want. And again, it seems like something that most people would say I'm either curious or I'm not. But in the framework that you're talking about it, if I have it stacked and I think about what is the habit I currently have, that would help me to layer on top of it curiosity. What would that look like for me? And I think that kind of possibility of taking something I'm good at and taking something maybe I haven't considered but I layer it on top of what I do. What would that look like? And it sounds like that's the journey you're taking people on mentally.

Sarah: 22:07

Yeah, it is, and it's a way to become more innovative. And sometimes what I've seen and what really drove my desire to move out of my traditional career into launching my own business Deliberately You is to really help people see what is possible. Over time, we all take on different roles and responsibilities and expectations and in many ways it serves us well in those moments expectations and in many ways it serves us well in those moments and there's a time and a value to take like almost an inventory of that for us and make sure that it really aligns. That is something I often do with my clients. You just hear the common things where it's like I don't have enough time or I'm stressed about this, or a lot of times that they could have a superpower.

Sarah: 22:56

It's like I want a time machine, I want to save time make time all of that and I think, okay, well, what if we learned to manage our energy a little bit differently? And what if we really thought about are there things like with habit stacking instead of it feeling something new? What if we married it together in a routine? And oftentimes I find that where it's like, oh, you're wanting to achieve getting ahead on something particular, what other things have that type of cadence that you're already doing? Yeah, is there something you already do on a daily basis that you could add on that five minutes? And now that's done too. There's ways to go about it in that way.

Sarah: 23:32

Same with like people say, I'd love to get to know my team more, but I don't have time, and I'm like, well, do you meet with them? Yes, they'll say I'd love to get to know my team more, but I don't have time, and I'm like, well, do you meet with them? Yes, okay, what are those meetings? What's one thing you might be able to do to get to know your team more, and it doesn't have to be oh, I have to plan a team building event. We got to go off site for three days. Beautiful, if you can, and also make incremental progress towards that and sustain progress, because you're learning to integrate it into what you're already doing and not having to let go of things you already value, but finding a way to make it all possible.

Cyndi: 24:11

It's interesting because the last few things you've said are jumping out to me for a couple of different reasons.

Cyndi: 24:14

When you say that you hear from people because I do the same thing, I hear from this that there's not enough time one in the day, one in my life, one whatever so time is always a big barrier for people, even though it's a mental construct. And then, secondly, like we all have the same amount. And then the second part is not having enough time to learn the people you're working with. It amuses me a little, like time is just time, it's how you use your time, what your priority is, that's what makes you either feel urgent or not. And then, second, as a leader, really, at the end of the day, what is more important than learning about your team? Because if your job is to get things done through that team, what is preventing you from spending that time with your team? Right? What are you doing that is getting work done outside of your team, right, right. Again, I think what you're getting at. Take those two pieces of feedback, for example, Sarah, because I'm sure you hear that a lot, and I do too.

Cyndi: 25:10

How do you help people realize that that's kind of funny, it's kind of ironic?

Sarah: 25:16

It is very ironic. Certainly if I have my peer coaching class hat on, I really do do a lot of inquiring, yeah, and one of the things I've learned into all of my relationships is that I can bring ideas to the table too. Yeah, yeah, my thought when you share that it's very ironic that we think that it would be almost like additive or like almost like an extracurricular to get to know people. And really, if you think about it when I started sharing a little bit earlier about what's important to you as a leader is knowing your own strengths. Well, wait a minute now, as a leader, if you knew your team strengths, you knew their motives, you knew the things that were important to them in your life, you would have like this incredible decoder of how to navigate communication conversation. You would stop making assumptions that they even want things the way you want and ask them and kind of picking on that piece to curiosity. What if, instead of us as leaders thinking about our team of like, well, I know they must want this or they must need this because I did. And what if you flipped that to a question? Yeah, and I oftentimes, with my clients, will say do you know that that's true. Is that an absolute with them? Do you know why they behave that way? Do you know what's underlying to that? What questions might you ask them to understand that?

Sarah: 26:38

Oftentimes we find like, oh, I've made a lot of kind of assumptions along the way, thinking of it, of how I would address it, and if I, as a leader, get curious, now I'm hearing I can help them and the person that I'm working with really is buying into that path because they're owning it.

Sarah: 26:55

It's their words, they're asking for it or they're sharing what their limitation is as leaders.

Sarah: 27:00

The more that we understand ourselves, model that we do and give our teams the opportunity to do that as well, it really opens up these doors of people being able to show up intentionally, and it doesn't mean that everything's always going to be fantastic and smooth. But to me it's like I rather solve a challenge knowing what the true challenge is, like, the root of it, versus be distracted by surface level of something that's not really going to make an impact as a leader. And so if I can understand my team, then I can really align things that are going to not only make them want to stay on the team, but also I mean, there's so much data out there that shows like creating that on your team not only aids towards retention, but productivity, creativity, better solutions that they're solving the way that they really go at their work on a day-to-day basis. And so don't we all want that? Don't we all want those people to feel empowered and really kind of attached to that on a day-to-day basis? And so, as leaders, how do we create that?

Cyndi: 28:09

It's almost like you're suggesting and I believe this that people have their own stories about other people. Here's the story of Brad over here, here's the story of Pat over here. And I'm going to tell these stories about what I presume they are like or who they are or what they want from me. And what you're saying is don't tell the story. Get them to tell their own story and understand their story and bring that together with your experience and have that kind of attunement in a relationship that's so energizing and so motivating. I think you know again what a great use of time, because when you think about efficiency and effectiveness, you can either have that story and try to figure it out and miss a lot, or you can take the time to learn that story and be crafting something together that just feels different and more connected and that word connected stands out to me and that's often something that I work towards is like, how do we connect the dots?

Sarah: 29:06

Like, as we are building relationships with our team, we're connecting the pieces, or as we're understanding our strengths, we're connecting it back to. How is that impacting what I do on a day-to-day basis, what I feel more inclined to want to say yes to, that piece of being able to pull back and, as a leader, getting to know your team. The more you know about the individuals on their team, the more you know about the work that they enjoy doing, the more you can maybe create more of those opportunities. Or even it goes a long way as a leader saying I know that you really enjoy working on these kinds of projects and I'm really working to see if I can identify more. And even if it takes you six months to find one more of those projects, that person feels seen, they feel heard, they feel understood, and that is gold, because that's just essential to us as people. And so if leaders, fortunately and a bit of responsibility that certainly comes with that we have the opportunity to do that, and how many times are we not really maximizing?

Cyndi: 30:11

Yeah, for sure, and putting the work ahead of that work, meaning the tasks ahead of the work of connecting, understanding people. But I think too, it's part of your background, it's part of my background. Like, we learn how to connect with people because we want to do that, it's part of our business, and then we practice the skills and habits to do those things. And I think, for the people who aren't natural kind of people people and, as you said, they might get promoted because they're a good individual contributor, they're good technically, now they're leading people. You've talked about strengths or values. What takes leaders away from even thinking about those things from your perspective, and how can they overcome that? Like I don't even know. That's something I should be knowing. What do you see takes people away? Overcome that, like I don't even know.

Sarah: 31:00

That's something I should be knowing. What do you see takes people away from that? I think part of it is the desire to understand themselves and knowing that they don't have to go. I love books, yes, because they plant seeds, and I listen to plenty of podcasts, audiobooks, everything else. What I often find is like that's the beginning point of a discovery, and I think that what I have seen in many cases as a leader and leaders that come up into what is, in their organization, identified as a leadership role, yet they don't feel fully equipped to do it.

Sarah: 31:32

Yeah, we kind of touched on this a little bit before of individuals going through that journey, on this a little bit before of individuals going through that journey, and I think the key is is that you don't have to, as a leader, let go of that past, of feeling a sense of accomplishment with all of the knowledge and expertise that you've gained, the experiences and as you take on a role as a leader, really remembering a leader is not just about getting stuff done. It's about the way that you do and, as a leader, the role to me and what I really try to instill in others. It's like we have this opportunity to really inspire, to motivate and to make sure that if we're not there or we retire, that those things will still happen in our team, because we're teaching them and guiding them of how to be good decision makers, how to feel like they can have autonomy in what they're doing, how to have a sense of a North Star of the values that they're operating in, because this is how we operate within an organization. These are the keys to be successful in our organization. It's not a mystery, and that the employee is not sitting there feeling like I'm not quite sure, even though I feel like I'm working super hard. I have no idea if that is hitting the mark, because I don't really know what's needed truly of me. I'm just hoping that it lands and they don't have that.

Sarah: 32:49

So, as leaders, I think we really want to remember we may still, as leaders, many of us still have tactical responsibilities and, equally, we are really supposed to create this exponential productivity out of also, not only what we're doing, but we're inspiring, guiding people and supporting people to do, as people move into a leadership role, getting comfortable with letting go of some of the tactical pieces that have made us successful to that point.

Sarah: 33:18

It has served you well it has. If you're being promoted, that has served you very well and it's time to rise. It's time to rise beyond your own accomplishments and to how you're supporting the other people around you. It's so rewarding and exciting to hear people that I work with my clients, that I work with my clients that I work with, move through that transformation and like, let go and realize there's so much to experience as a leader and so much that they can teach others and guide others and let go of and watch them do and realizing like you're helping all of this, live on and get some legs under it without you, but you're really. That guidance that you're creating is really what's meaningful because it's giving them that runway to succeed and to stumble a little bit, but giving them that safety net.

Cyndi: 34:08

For sure. You said a lot of things that were really important in that description, that process of self-discovery, and you mentioned that most people aren't fully equipped because they don't understand how that role is different. I've been rewarded for doing X, now I'm going to be rewarded for doing Z, and Z is all about letting go of what I've done to be successful potentially, and then finding something else that is more purposeful around helping others be inspired, helping other people grow, helping you said teaching, you said guiding. You said rewards. The rewards are very different. Sometimes people are surprised by that. They think, oh, I'm a manager, the reward is I get to manage and that's like the career or the money or the whatever, like that's the reward, not thinking about how you need to consider your responsibilities differently.

Sarah: 35:04

You're a leader. It is about you reflecting on who do you want to be as a leader. Fast forward five years from this point that you're listening to this and the people that worked for you or with you. What are you hoping they would describe you to that next person that's starting five years from now? On your team, what's the reputation you want to have? What's the consistency that you want to bring forth? And I think, again, that's where some of these tools of understanding your strengths, understanding your own value system, understanding why you're communicating the way you are with your team, understanding how to adapt your communication I do a lot of work with desk as well and understanding communication styles so that you have that adaptability, because ultimately, we do.

Sarah: 35:48

We want to take care of our people that are working with us, and we also want to meet the needs of the company. It's a blend, it's multifaceted, we have responsibility to both, and so how do you bring that together? And so the more clarity that you can give. It's a blend, it's multifaceted, we have responsibility to both, and so how do you bring that together? And so the more clarity that you can give, the more direction that you can pave. That way it lets things keep having momentum without you having to have a deep hand in the day-to-day.

Cyndi: 36:12

Yeah, and you've made that point a couple times, Sarah, and I think it's such an important one I have a definition of coaching that is about helping people to bring out their best selves. You're helping them to be them. You know you're not telling them what to do, but you're really guiding them. But it is in the context of the organization and you've said that a couple of times that, as a leader, part of our responsibility is understanding what the organization needs from us and from the team, and that our purpose as leaders is to connect those dots in ways that a lot of people don't see. And I think we make a lot of assumptions that people get it Like well, don't you get the work you're doing to the company's mission or whatever it is, but it's so disconnected or it's so unclear that the day-to-day connecting of the dots is not there. And I think that's so, so essential as part of our legacy.

Sarah: 37:04

And I agree, when I've seen leaders have a greater impact, that seems to be the consistent factor. They do a really great job of understanding their people, but also understanding the priorities of the company, and you're really matching that along the way. It always was. One of my favorite parts of being an HR leader is that I knew what the parameters were within the organization and what would work and, as employees, team members would come to me with challenges or interests. It was like matchmaking. I'm like, oh, that's cool, they want to do that. How might that align here?

Sarah: 37:38

And that'll solve this person's challenge and this one will be excited about it, and you know it's this connecting of dots, as you said, and summarize, and it's this web that you're realizing, you know, to keep everything going and swirling and happening and succeeding. Again, I think some of the best leaders just do that. They think in that way, in a very connected way, not in a complete linear way of this than that, and they're just solving for X. In this moment. They're realizing and identifying X. This might impact five other areas on that and start to fuel that piece of it. So being a leader comes, like I said, with a lot of responsibility, but just to me, such an exciting opportunity to have such an impact and have a legacy.

Cyndi: 38:25

Absolutely. And as you were talking about connecting the dots and allowing people to grow in the context of the organization, sometimes people want to grow in the context that's outside of the organization. I mean, some organizations are big enough to say, hey, Sarah, where do you want to go and grow? And the organization is big enough, dynamic enough or flexible enough to lean into that and accommodate it. Some companies are more traditional, they're smaller, they're probably less agile, but I've seen people try to make that fit oh, Sarah, you want to do this, so we'll create this role, and just doesn't even make sense. You know, it makes sense for the person but not the company and people are trying to like I don't know, like it feels duct tape-ish.

Sarah: 39:07

Like I'm going to put it over here.

Cyndi: 39:09

You create this role and it doesn't even make sense, but this is what you want to do. But I think really effective leaders can have those difficult conversations when someone wants to go someplace and there isn't that place to go either.

Sarah: 39:21

So, true, I'm smiling as you're saying that, because I was very fortunate to have many great leaders that I worked for, and I remember I was in a particular time in my career that I found myself in a conversation that ended up becoming an interview, which was not my intent, oh, okay. And I remember telling my mom about it and I was like, yeah, so I left that conversation. I got to my car and I called my boss and she's like why would you do that? And I'm like, because we have such a great relationship and she knows me better than anybody else in my career. So, yeah, it could mean that I leave or I stay, but I mean I don't even know what I'm considering yet.

Sarah: 40:03

But she's the person I trusted so deeply that she would look at it like what would be best for you, sarah, with your goals professionally, with your talent, with your life personally, etc. And I ultimately ended up staying in my current role at that time. But the way that she just so genuinely guided me and I knew she didn't want to lose me on her team of course not, but she didn't let that get in her way and I'm like that is to me like that's the leader I've always inspired to be, because I know how good that felt to be able to talk to someone who knows my world better than anyone else. You know and oftentimes that is your boss knows my world better than anyone else, and oftentimes that is your boss, of course, and I was not fearful of that. She was going to think I wasn't committed or she was going to try and transition me out of my role because I was being vulnerable on that front.

Sarah: 40:48

So I think that leader is yes. That may mean at times that someone might go do something else. I believe that that ends up, when you then look back at it many years later, working out for the best, Like that relationship leads to something else and just has this way of coming full circle, of making sense. I know for me. I was always grateful for that, and that's something with my clients. I'm not sure if you're familiar with David Master's trust equation.

Sarah: 41:15

I talk a lot about trust and it's this piece of self-orientation that is like that make or break and either erodes trust or builds trust. And so I think, as a leader, thinking about that piece of self-orientation and that equation, like with your people, are you really focused on yourself and your own needs and your own pressures that are on you, or are you really focused on the needs of others and it doesn't mean you remove the needs of yours, but where are you leading from? And so if you're so laser focused on the you factor in it, it is not going to create the strongest bond of trust with your team. It's gonna take away from that and people pick up on that pretty quick.

Cyndi: 41:55

Absolutely. It's so much less collaborative. It's so much less about inclusivity. I think what's kind of interesting about that insight or that observation, Sarah, is that most people don't know they aren't being inclusive, they don't know they are putting their priorities first. And that goes back to what you said about your journey is taking people through a deeper self-awareness, around their insights, around their legacy, around defining what is that lighthouse and what it looks like, because I don't think people are doing that purposefully, but it comes across and, as you said, you can see it, but I think people don't realize what they're doing and the effect that it has on others.

Sarah: 42:34

Absolutely, and I think that that really aligned with my belief in authenticity.

Cyndi: 42:40

I think that as leaders.

Sarah: 42:41

Although there's, like I said, many different leadership styles you can look at, read up on again. I take that as a guidance of like. Sink them into, like who you are and what you want to be able to give to others and own that, because that's really what's going to create that bond with your team. Learn, if you are one that has more challenges of like, how to adjust your communication style. That seems to be a common challenge. I communicate well with people that are more like me or communicate or need that more directive approach than I, or I communicate well with people that are more supportive and now when someone's direct, I feel like they're just poking holes in me and all my ideas and I'm uncomfortable. You start to understand that and people's different styles. You get more comfortable with like ebb and flow. You come from a more of a place of understanding versus feeling uncomfortable or potentially confrontational. I obviously and I know you do too it's like I'm very interested in understanding. This whole area of self-awareness is just so huge, and then that allows us to understand the people around us.

Sarah: 43:49

We mentioned a bit about not everybody would define themselves as a people person and I know that's a common thing we say but really, when you look at human nature, we all are people, people. We need that sense of belonging, we need that sense of community. We might just show up differently in those communities, but we all need folks around us that make us feel that sense of connection, that sense of acceptance, that part, that around feeling seen, heard, understood, that you're valued as a human. One of the biggest challenges right now that we're seeing is people feeling more isolated or alone and that not only impacts people's longevity of living. It impacts their quality of life so significantly and the quality of life of those that they influence around them. So in the work that I do, we've focused a lot around leadership and coaching and that side of it. It all has an underlying piece of that understanding yourself, understanding what really like refills you as a person so that you can bring your best self into each day.

Sarah: 44:52

We talked before a little bit even about like filling your cup and what does that mean?

Sarah: 44:57

And it doesn't mean just putting more, and it doesn't mean just putting more in, it doesn't mean just filling it with more things. But it is amazing and I've had this challenge for myself sometimes like, well, what does fill my cup, what does make me feel like I'm re-energized, what does feel more at ease. It's amazing how many of us have a hard time articulating that. So that's another thing I work with my clients on, because in order to navigate being a leader, to navigate day-to-day life, we are best when we're coming from a place of feeling already filled up with all the good things, versus going into the day feeling depleted, because there's enough things that are going to come in our day that are going to deplete us, just because we're exuding energy and putting effort into things we're doing and we have unpredictable things that will always come up. And if we really take seriously that opportunity to understand what we need, we'll protect that a little bit more so we'll be able to give more fully to the things that we encounter, a hundred percent.

Cyndi: 45:58

I agree. So, Sarah, it's been a great conversation about your effect that you want to have on helping people be more deliberate with who they are and also, I think, who they want to be ultimately, and that you're creating some alignment in that you're also creating awareness of it and you're helping them realize what can they build on to get there and are there any barriers that are getting in their way. What a great and purposeful mission as an organization and as a coach.

Sarah: 46:27

I appreciate that and it really means a lot hearing that from you. I know the space that you work at and the clients that you work with are very impressive and you're very accomplished in all that you do. So to hear you say that and I feel like to just join forces. You know, with individuals like you, that we need more of this in the world because life goes by pretty fast and the more that we can do it with intention and deliberately, I think the better off that we'll all be. I agree we look back at the years that are passing.

Cyndi: 46:57

It's true, and, Sarah, wouldn't it be cool if we found another business owner that was authentically you, or something about that? We would have deliberateness and intentionality and authenticity. My last question for you is how do you show up as intentional? Because I think you are a very intentional person. So what's an example of how you show up that way in your life and work?

Sarah: 47:21

Great, question and the first thing that popped into my head as you asked that was being present.

Sarah: 47:27

I think that in a time that there are so many distractions and I give into that temptation many times being able to be present is the thing that I work on to do intentionally with others, even for myself, because I find when I'm present, that's when I absorb either the beauty around me, I see and understand more of what somebody is experiencing, and it's one of the things that I've really learned and really honed in on as a coach. That I've really learned and really honed in on as a coach it's so much of being present and holding space for people and how that then takes a short period of time, whether it's a half hour or an hour, and it feels like it could have been days that they would have had to work on something otherwise, but by holding that space and being present and helping them connect dots, it's just incredible how it just makes that progress. You know, take hold on that front. So being present is definitely something I work on very intentionally.

Cyndi: 48:27

Sarah, that is a choice. I think presence is an important choice because there are so, so many distractions that we have and even when you and I are talking, you still have a choice to be thinking about your grocery list.

Cyndi: 48:41

You have a choice to think about something else. But I know you don't because you and I have had several conversations and I feel the attunement with you, I feel the energy with you, even though you're in Buffalo and I'm in Madison. I feel that connection through Zoom and when you are able to create that space for people where you can connect, it doesn't matter if you get to talk for five minutes or, as you said, an hour or you're engaging for whatever period of time. It's about the quality of the interaction and to me I feel like that is a gift. It's a gift that you're giving to people is your complete time and attention and you're doing it to be of service. I love that about the work that you're doing and I love that about how you're showing up intentionally to do that, to help people be deliberate with who they are. That's a beautiful thing. That's so awesome.

Sarah: 49:34

Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. That is definitely my intention to do that, and I hope that those that I interact with already and those that I hopefully get to experience in the future see that as well.

Cyndi: 49:47

It's so rewarding to hear your story, so I really appreciate the time you're taking to be with me today.

Sarah: 49:52

Likewise, it inspires me to have more people in that space to do that, because to me, the saddest thing is watching people live too many days going through the motions and just feeling like a stress ball or feeling lost. I know it's kind of cliche that life's too short, but I just really do believe that we all have an opportunity, even with some of the most challenging times and some of the tragedies that we can all experience, that we still can find goodness. We can still live fully, maybe differently than we expected, but fully. And so the more that any one of us can help each other see that and I think that's really what this is about we can't do it alone. Yes, and there are people that want to help others really see what is possible, and I'm one that believes in that possibility.

Sarah: 50:43

Maybe it's my strength of hope out there, but I think most things are possible if we're willing to give it the time and attention that it needs and deserves. If it's that important. Embrace being you. I believe each person is special in their own way and whether I get to meet some of the people listening to this or not, my hope for them is that they just embrace that more, because we need people just living with more intention, more deliberately, more authentically, so that everybody can see the gifts that each person has within them, absolutely.

Cyndi: 51:15

What's the alternative is, none of us show up as ourselves. We're all trying to be someone else. We're all trying to do something. That's not in alignment with our core. And I think that's the beauty of helping people to realize what they bring to the table that is unique and different and special. Our opportunity is to help people find that and find joy and purpose.

Sarah: 51:35

Yeah, don't be robotic, I know, stop doing that, right, this is your life, not somebody else's. Exactly.

Cyndi: 51:43

Well, Sarah, thank you for taking time today to talk a little bit about, one, your career journey and how you transitioned into doing this coaching and consulting and being in an entrepreneurial space. And then secondly, as you named your company Deliberately you why that is so important. And then three, I think a lot of the message today has been about how you're going through this journey to be Deliberately you and then how you can help people do the same. So I am so honored that we connected. We'll look forward to who is that third leg of the stool that's authentically, who owns the authenticity business and will be unstoppable. So thank you for your time today. I really do appreciate it.

Sarah: 52:26

The honor is mine.

Cyndi: 52:29

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