Leading Accessibility, Equity & Environmental Justice; A Deeply Meaningful Journey with Anita Cobb

Anita Cobb's story is one of remarkable transformation, and in our latest episode, this pioneering leader from Mead & Hunt brings you a narrative that's as empowering as it is enlightening. From her evolution in finance to becoming a champion of diversity and inclusion in the aviation sector, Anita exemplifies what it means to turn adversity into opportunity. Her candid conversation with us illuminates the importance of a people-first approach in the realms of architecture, engineering, and construction, and how it leads to more inclusive design and technology advancements.

Anita's resilience is also a beacon for anyone navigating personal tribulations. Her openness in discussing her struggles with substance abuse and domestic violence adds a layer of depth to her advocacy for transparency and collaboration in the workplace. This episode is not just about overcoming challenges but also about the power of supportive networks and the courage to be vulnerable, which Anita believes can transform workplace culture and foster personal growth.

As our conversation with Anita draws to a close, she reflects on the inner pillars that keep her steadfast—the 'verticals'.  Anita's journey inspires a call to authenticity, gratitude, and intentional leadership, proving that every one of us has the potential to be an unstoppable force for change. If Anita's story resonates with you, join us in this episode for a deep connection with one of aviation equity's most inspiring figures.

Find Anita here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anita-cobb-mba/

Be the Best Leader You Know

Perform with Power, Lead with Impact, Inspire Growth

To sharpen your skills and increase your confidence, check out the Confident Leader Course: https://www.intentionaleaders.com/confident-leader

Transcript

Cyndi: 0:00

We all have things in life that we hold on to because they shape us in some way, shape or form. Well, if you're Anita Cobb, you don't just hold on to those things. You let the journey out as a platform for change and positivity. Anita Cobb is a market leader at Mead and Hunt and she is responsible for aviation equity strategies. You will love learning about her journey and her quest to improve the world. I know I'm thankful and admiring of her impact. Today. I want to welcome to the Intentional Leaders Welcome. Anita Cobb.

Cyndi: 0:41

Anita, and I met through a leadership academy. I had the honor of learning and partnering with you for almost a year, wasn't it this time around? So you were also in exploring leadership with me, and then we went through leadership academy and I got to be your coach for a period of time. I have been inspired by you and my mind has been blown away by your perspective and I thought, oh, wouldn't it be cool to talk to Anita on a podcast episode? [Anita: And here we are Twin energy, I know]. So thank you for taking time out of your schedule to be here, Anita. What I wanted to start with is you have a role that I've never heard of before. I was so intrigued by it and I wanted to hear a little bit about how you came to this role in your career and what it means. Because it's unusual, but you are a market leader for aviation equity strategies. So what in blazes is that and how did you get there?

Anita: 1:39

Thank you so much for having me and thanks for that honestly question that I get all the time. I love to answer it. My first thing it means that I'm making it all up as I go.

Cyndi: 1:48

Excellent.

Anita: 1:50

The core of what I'm doing Mead and Hunt is to be able to be accountable to the way we treat people in our work.

Anita: 1:55

We have all of these activities that we do that are typical to most firms of our type architecture, engineering and construction but what does that mean when you think about it from a people-first lens?

Anita: 2:06

So that means that we're thinking about things like inclusive design, inclusive technology, workforce development, thinking about ways that we can improve accessibility and community engagement. It goes on down the line, but it basically says, instead of us creating a system where we know that in the past that we've polluted communities or that we've used things communities, or that we use things that are harmful to people, or even just strategies in building a team that weren't effective, how can we try to design out the barriers and the marginalization that is in the industry today? To give some background on how I got here, it was interesting because when I started at Mead and Hunt back in 2017, I came from the finance industry. I didn't know where I wanted to go with any of this stuff because I was not familiar with anything architecture, engineering or construction but I was an admin and I will always stick to the fact that I was terrible at it.

Cyndi: 2:58

I was an admin as well, and I was also terrible at it, so we have that in common as well.

Anita: 3:04

I'm telling you. It's the curse. I don't know how to put my brain around this. It's something that I should be able to grasp, but it just was not filling my cup, and that's honestly what my boss ended up telling me one day. We understand that you are a degreed woman, but we know that this is not filling your cup. So from then I started exploring other opportunities and, luckily, shortly after that, we started our diversity and inclusion initiative.

Anita: 3:32

From there it was this organic conversation internally with myself and also with people in the firm about where do I fit in now. Over time, we evolved a lot of different initiatives where I was able to stand in leadership roles and try to be more accountable to how we were going to show up. The way I got my title is that I was actually working with one of our clients. We were talking about equity. They had a proposal come out and we ended up getting zero points for equity. Absolutely blown away. I'm like what do we do? What do we do? Come to find out it was just a miscommunication. It wasn't fully a part of our culture yet, so it was something that we didn't get to illustrate, and I met the lady who actually ended up giving us the zero at a conference.

Anita: 4:12

She told me unapologetically, I gave you the zero. Well, thank you. Right now, yeah, but what she did was after that, we did have a couple more engagements with the client and we got it right the second time around and we were able to be successful. But because we were transparent about you know how we are showing up as a firm in that conference, she literally pulled my boss to the side and said, hey, you got a good thing going here. We really want you to be able to figure out how does she fit into your firm in an official capacity. She encouraged my boss to sit down with me and let me think of my own job description, let me think of how I wanted to try to shape this mission, and she really empowered me to say that we can unapologetically do this as a firm, and he was very touched by that. And the rest is history.

Cyndi: 5:00

Oh, Anita, I did not know that whole part of the story of how you landed where you did and that is fascinating of actually something kind of bad news and then the ripple effect of that, putting you in a position to really talk about treating people within the company, in teams, in the communities, in the projects you do I mean holy smokes, that is a lot. So how are you wrapping your mind around that and your arms around it, knowing that the scope of what you're being asked to do is very, very big?

Anita: 5:38

If you ask the right people, they say your arms can't be long enough to be able to do this. But for me, I think it does perk people up because they're like you're just taking on too much and I'm like but all of these things are opportunities. What it really comes down to is when you've been through things, when you have a testimony of how the world hasn't always been awesome to you and you can see how we can work together on solutions, then you make it a priority, and that's what we've done at Meat and Hunt. We have a lot of people who are being honest about their history, honest about what they see in the future and trying to do what they can to resolve those problems.

Anita: 6:15

Because I'm literally going to tell you that I learned most of what I know on my job from people. I don't go to classes, I don't go to any type of lengths to make sure that I'm just the brain of the situation. I have the heart that says we're going to talk to different people and find ways to collaborate our way into the best practices, Because, honestly, I know Meat and Hunt is not going to be fully capable of having all these talents and strategies on deck. So us building a network of people that we can collaborate with is going to be the most effective way for us to be sure that we're accountable to the strategies we need to have.

Cyndi: 6:50

You said a couple things that are super important, and I want to go back to one because it really says a lot about who you are. You said I see all of these things as opportunities, because I have the testimony of my own experience to know how problematic they are, and so you want to create solutions for that. Think of all the people in the world who are a victim to their lives. Think of all the people who feel like that wasn't fair, that's not right, and feel either anger or resentment, or maybe shame or blame or whatever. It would be all of those emotions as opposed to let's get this done in a different way. How do you make that shift? Because a lot of people don't make the shift that you're making.

Anita: 7:36

That's right. I'm one of those people who will be as transparent as possible about the fact that my life to this point has been a struggle. I've never found a way to just coast all the way to the point where I'm at right now. I'm always transparent about the fact that I did struggle with drugs and alcohol back in the day. I struggled with domestic violence. I've been unhoused before, but in the midst of all that stuff I had people that were around me that were able to empower me to get better.

Anita: 8:04

That didn't mean that I shied away from therapy. I've been very honest about the fact that I've had a couple stints in actual psychiatric hospitals to be able to cope with all the things I was doing, things that were definitely negative coping mechanisms. But I think through therapy and for me I have a huge amount of faith I've prayed my way through a lot of things that I knew that nobody on earth could understand, and it was a matter of just trying to find strength in the strategy of. I know this can't be how it always has to be, and I try to help other people level with how they're dealing with their circumstances by telling them that I'm a living testimony of the fact that, whatever this current situation is, it doesn't have to be how it always is yeah.

Anita: 8:47

Try to illustrate the stories of people who have overcome their addictions, overcome their shortcomings, overcome all types of stuff. Even when you get past all of those things that you have control of yourself, it's wild because right now I'm perimenopausal. I ain't got no control over that, right. that's where people have to be honest with themselves. You're going to get thrown a bunch of curveballs and I think that we can be each other's therapy. We can be each other's strength and sounding block when we don't have it for ourselves and hopefully gain a better mindset of being able to get past whatever that issue is, so we can move forward.

Cyndi: 9:23

That strength and power and personal agency and feeling that power to be able to shift and change, I think is so important. Not everyone shares those things, though. Not everybody's comfortable sharing those things, and they hold it in and feel like they have to figure it out on their own, and that is a lonely place to be and an isolating place to be as well. You said you like to be a role model for transparency and you want to create a space where people can be more supportive and collaborative. What would you say to the people that are holding it in and that are hiding it? What perspective would you give to them?

Anita: 10:01

You're going to explode. Don't do that. Oh shoot, I mean. But just to be perfectly honest with you, I've always been a firm believer in this phrase that I say a lot meet people where they are. There's nothing saying that you just have to feel like a person is as emotionally intelligent as you think they should be or anything that is not conducive with where they're capable of functioning.

Anita: 10:26

I think a lot of people get caught up on trying to aspire to other standards that aren't good for them. It's all about self-awareness. It's about being able to say these are my limits, this is who I am. I want to be better. I'm going to have this group around me to be able to influence that and give me feedback on my progress. That's why classes like yours are so important, because it brings a level of self-awareness to how you perform professionally, personally and otherwise those people who really want to be accountable for who they are. You have to seek out opportunities to have that outside influence and that outside feedback so that you can be not living in your own vacuum in your mind, because that's a lot of times what people end up doing you self-sabotage in certain situations, and it's not easy. It's something you have to keep constant watch on in order to refine that skill.

Cyndi: 11:16

Absolutely. I started asking this at the beginning of every class that I'm teaching. I believe I'm self-aware, true or false? Over 95 typically percent of people say they are. Research suggests that about 5% to 10% of people are really self-aware. I can be self-aware to say, oh, I had a good day today or I didn't do that thing. That's not totally self-awareness about how are you coping, how are you perceived by other people and, as you said, are you accountable to yourself? I had this great conversation with someone recently who's an entrepreneur and she said I decided to grade myself as an employee. She said I graded myself pretty low. She's like I'm not following through on certain things that I said I would do and I think I would have fired myself and I'm like, holy crap. That's the kind of accountability that you're talking about is. Will you look at yourself and honestly say how you're doing and pay attention to what you're really doing, not what you perceive you're doing? And that's important.

Anita: 12:13

Oh, a hundred percent.

Cyndi: 12:14

You use the phrase showing up a lot. When we went through Leadership Academy and you talked about showing up in your own journey and the importance of that, you also mentioned to me that you are where you are supposed to be right now by how you've shown up. Tell me a little bit about why that's so meaningful to you, the showing up phrase, and how it brought you to where you are today.

Anita: 12:37

I always think about the example of when I first started at Meat and Hunt. I wasn't familiar with the people I was working with, I wasn't familiar with the job I was supposed to do and I did what I had to do in that time to code, switch into what I thought would give me success, and that also did not contribute to me, the less that you are actually giving back your whole self. Then you just become performative. It wasn't until I had a good conversation with one of my colleagues who got me out of the admin role and had me switch to more planning stuff, where she said you need to find your fire, yeah. And I was like let's dig into this.

Anita: 13:21

That has been my thing with this human forever. Every time I think about her. She even got me a find your fire necklace because that was the biggest avenue that you have into figuring out. Well, this is how I want to show up. You show up as your whole package and then you tell everybody else you ride or get rode on, because right now I'm trying to figure out who I am. Have you heard that phrase? Those who count don't think it matters and those who matter don't think it counts, or something like that.

Cyndi: 13:48

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Anita: 13:49

When you get to show up as your whole, authentic self and you don't have to compromise or feel like you're going to step outside of yourself just to be able to perform to something. That's when you start to thrive and that's what I want other people to be able to do. Don't feel like you have to always code, switch or manipulate your trajectory to fit something that doesn't suit you, because then you'll end up miserable. You'll end up doing all types of stuff that's adverse to your actual progress and when you could figure out who you are and just unapologetically keep showing up that way. Having people help you in a very compassionate way. Be able to refine that over time. I don't like the fact that there were times where I didn't think I could wear my hair. There were times where I used to keep my nails super long and colorful. I used to be very self-conscious about that, but I love that stuff.

Anita: 14:41

The less that I did it, the less I felt like myself. But then when I started doing it because I didn't care anymore, people are like I love your nails.

Cyndi: 14:48

I love your hair.

Anita: 14:49

That's what gives you the power and the strength is when you find that community that allows you to be yourself.

Cyndi: 14:55

I think that shines through for you, because the experiences that I have with you and I got to meet you a lot virtually, but then the Anita in 3D was so much better, you are just a bundle of energy. When you walk into a room, the vibe that you give off and the energy that you give off and the positivity that you give off, you can feel it. It draws people to you in a way that I just think how would you bottle that Anita?

Anita: 15:20

How would you?

Cyndi: 15:21

Bottle it and sell it, because you'd be a gazillionaire.

Anita: 15:25

I keep telling him, if we figure that out, I just want to cut. If I can sit on the beach somewhere and bottle this stuff up, baby, you can have it.

Cyndi: 15:33

Exactly so. How do you do that on days when you're not feeling it? How do you show up those times? Because I know you work your butt off, not just for your job, but for your family, for your partner, everything in your world. You show up in spades. How do you keep showing up in such an amazing way?

Anita: 15:50

My favorite thing to say is that people are my jam. I have a never ending supply of love that I want to give at this point in time. That's what I've always prayed for is that I can be the type of person that, when people see me come and they smile. I always want to be the type of person that's always down for the ride. As I think about those things, even on the days that I'm tired, there are motivations that allow me to say this energy is bigger than me. I need to be able to give in order to be able to feel what I need to feel to keep functioning. There are plenty of times where I did get resentful and frustrated because I'm just giving too much of myself, but it was voluntary. I've also been transparent about my struggles with ADHD. That means that everything is a priority all the time.

Cyndi: 16:37

Yes, yes.

Anita: 16:37

That need to be needed and that desire to be busy is always there. The older that I get, the more mature that I get. The more that I build my village, the more that I try to rein in my energy so that it's sustainable. And that's where I'm at right now is trying to be more cognizant of ways that I can actually give to others without feeling like I didn't put the oxygen mask on myself first. It's just so important. It's an ongoing thing.

Cyndi: 17:19

I love that when you think about that energy and that positivity and that way of showing up. You said what is important is that's a choice and it's a goal that you have. Now I want to go back to your job itself, because I have been seeing a little bit of information just socially, that diversity and equity and inclusion and all those things are becoming harder and harder for organizations to manage and maintain and sustain and to make an impact. That's getting a lot of press right now and I'm thinking what is it from your perspective that you want to do, because there's so much to do so that it doesn't feel like it's not working?

Anita: 18:02

At this point in time. It's crazy because we are in an industry where funding is a big deal for our projects, With affirmative action being taken away and people not having to be accountable to equity type stuff. Our role in this is to now just find people who are just like-minded enough to not care whether the initiative is funded or not.

Anita: 18:25

That goes into surrounding yourself with the people who all have the same objectives, who are going to unapologetically go after whatever this issue is, with everything they've got. In my position, you have to be able to convince people that in some of these cases, this could be you at any point in time. Oh wow, we all have to really stop and think about the people who are disabled. If you literally think about stepping off of a curb the wrong way, you can now be in that category and it won't matter to you until it does matter to you. Even when it comes to poverty, you never know. Every day we watch the news and things are all chaotic and confusing and we realm to be able to tell people how what is happening to others isn't OK.

Anita: 19:21

We have to make people understand how to be empathetic and understand how that situation is, not how they would want to be treated.

Anita: 19:31

That is where we're trying to build strength in numbers and find each other in consortiums and communities of people who are still willing to take on this fight, no matter what it takes. Here we are, we just keep marching.

Cyndi: 19:43

That's a beautiful thing. And there's this book that I read a while back and it's called the Empathy Advantage. It's about post-pandemic, what people need in the workplace. You're getting at a huge part of it. But this whole book is we need to be more in tune with each other as human beings and we need to be there for each other. But empathy has to be front of mind all the time in terms of the workforce and the workplace.

Cyndi: 20:07

When I read the book and I was like, ok, sure, I know a lot of people who aren't leading with empathy. I didn't lead with empathy back in the day. I was leading with logic and problem solving and getting results and whatnot. That mindset is a huge shift. Oh yeah, how many people are you working with on this initiative at Median Hunt?

Anita: 20:54

Everybody. Nobody's in Media Hunt.

Cyndi: 20:58

No one can hide from Anita. I know I love that about you.

Anita: 21:03

Listen here, okay, eople have a lot of energy into what suits them, what they're trying to get out of life and everything, and again, my role right now is to help people see how does equity fit into your objectives? We have a lot of different ranges of understanding of what this means to people's professional lives and whether they'll be willing to put it into their personal lives. A core group of us for sure 15, 20 of us that are pretty regularly engaging with one another to figure out how we put equity, environmental justice and accessibility into our roles in the different divisions that we work in I think everybody's going to be stressed to an extent for a while until we figure out how we're going to develop the workforce and do some better succession planning. But really my goal, if I could have it my way, everybody at my firm would be very well aware of what accessibility, equity and environmental justice mean in general and what they could do to implement that in their work.

Anita: 22:09

And even if they can't figure that out, how do you at least start the conversation with people so that you can either impress upon a client or at least find a teaming partner that can help you meet some of the goals that we have for getting rid of some of the marginalization that we see.

Cyndi: 22:24

Those are amazing goals. Even terminology, people don't understand it. It's hard for them to affect it. I think those issues are so large. So defining the words, understanding them, having a common language, I think, is great. You also said either understanding how to implement or at least know who to connect with to be able to start moving in that direction. I think about a fresh, shiny new year. We're already at March 1st, but what would happen by the end of the year? It's December 31st and you feel like I have made a difference at the firm. What would that be, even in this year? Do you have a sense of what that is? Because it's just so darn big, anita. How are you going to keep this energy up and how are you going to feel like you're making progress?

Anita: 23:07

Last year I won two awards. One was through the Airport Minority Advisory Council and then I also won top 40 under 40 for airport business. And that's not a plug for anything, even though, thank you, I appreciate it. Even getting those accomplishments, I'm like that.

Anita: 23:26

I didn't do anything, and the reason why I felt like that is because I didn't see the impact. There's a lot of concepts, there's a lot of planning, there's a lot of activity. But looking for the actual impact, how do we make sure that this is something that people feel is what I always aim for? So, by December 31st, if I could quantify the ways that I would love to be able to see the impacts that we're making whether that's X amount of communities, x amount of people, x amount of projects that we've done I will feel a lot better to see the tides changing and seeing more equity, environmental justice and accessibility in our projects.

Anita: 24:05

That is definitely not always the best thing. I have to have some physical metrics, because I hate always equating people to data. Don't do that. But if you have to quantify it, you know you can get some qualitative information about how you made people feel. That's the one thing I love so much. Is that my end of a quote? People will never forget how you made them feel.

Cyndi: 24:29

Yes, you made them feel xactly.

Anita: 24:31

I think that's exactly what it is, but that's what I want. Yeah, if by the end of the year, I can say that 100 people know that meeting hun is accountable to people, they're doing it unapologetically, they're walking the talk, that will be where I feel like we really made the splash that we need to.

Cyndi: 24:49

Oh, what an inspiring vision. I'll be one of those hundred. How's that? Hey, count me in.

Anita: 24:57

Hey, yay, love it when a plan comes together. I know right.

Cyndi: 25:01

In all the things that you've shared with me, and talking about personal and professional, one of the things that is, I think, your superpower is the ability to rise above and solve problems. You have overcome so many challenges to rise above and solve problems. You have overcome so many challenges and, again, not everyone has the fortitude and the disposition and the skills to solve problems and to continue to move your trajectory in a positive direction. So, as you think about you, what contributes to your ability to do that? What are the superpowers that you would encourage other people to build up that would help them to do what you're doing?

Anita: 25:40

So this is one of my therapy lessons now, ok, and I can't remember exactly who brought this to me, but it's about finding your vertical. Finding your vertical means that when you are figuring out who you are in this life, there's something that has to ground you and plant you, something that makes you feel like everything you're doing is worth it. For me, it's my family, it's my religion, it's trying to make the world a better place. The h is all the outside pressures that make it hard for you to focus on that vertical the horizontal pressures of people saying that they don't believe in you, policies not supporting you, opportunities, not being in front of you. That's going to happen, but the purpose is for that stuff to swirl around you because your vertical is so strong that it doesn't allow you to be moved by the rest of that stuff.

Anita: 26:29

I talk all the time about my mom's favorite poem by ichard ki and it's called If, and it says in one of the beginning stanzas I just want to keep my head while everybody else around me is losing theirs, and that, to me, has been a very impactful way for me to try to figure out how to rise above all the stuffs. This world is crazy. It's disrespectful. It ain't going nowhere as far as getting better overnight. So we have to figure out how we're going to just avoid the chaos and confusion and protect our core. Have your place of sanctity, whether that's physically, in your environment or in your mind. I've always been so excited about this lesson I learned a long time ago about the paths that get worn down in your brain.

Anita: 27:16

it's wearing down a negative pathway. It's literally putting a groove in your brain so that when you have a thought it goes on that path of least resistance. We have an opportunity to change those thoughts to the trajectory of the good path, but it's an active practice that we have to do constantly, and that's another thing. That's really been helpful is just to try to be more mindful of the choice that you have, the discernment that you have personally and professionally to be able to make your world what you want it to be.

Cyndi: 27:44

I literally just read an article I think it was two days ago that I was reading out loud to my husband and I said, hey, there is research that says the more you complain, the more you do it, you're creating the neural pathway in your brain to do it, it gets solidified in there and it all makes you feel really bad and it just creates that super highway. And in fact I have on my computer neurons that fire together, wire together, because I'm doing some work with neuroscience and brain science and what you just said is critical to know egativity breeds negativity and it creates that path in your brain. Changing that mindset is something I'm really focused on right now around gratitude, around support, around compassion, around how can I be of value. And I am thinking of that all the time, all the time to try to wire my brain so it creates some efficiency in it and, as you said, that it creates focus in remembering what I am here to do. I love the vertical, horizontal. That's a beautiful thing, thank you.

Anita: 28:49

Therapy. It's been a lot of times.

Cyndi: 28:52

Therapy. It's a beautiful thing and I've gone to therapy off and on in my life and different periods of time and I remember sitting there with the discomfort of not wanting to share things that were so stressful or isolating to me. And I found this wonderful therapist who just made me feel like a million bucks, no matter what, and she was so supportive and caring and compassionate and humorous and she would challenge me to to rise above some of the ways I was thinking about things and some of the limiting beliefs I had, and it just made a huge impact. So I think if everyone could see a therapist at some point in their life, it'd be like the best strategy ever.

Anita: 29:32

For real, my opinion. You know something else. I actually have been having conversations about how people can ground themselves better, and one individual I was talking to was explaining to me that they're trying to put yoga in schools and instead of you going to detention, you go to yoga. Because, if you think about it, a lot of the people who are struggling academically or with their behavior, they have coping issues, they have impulse control issues and when you have yoga to teach you how to breathe, to teach you how to center yourself, you allow yourself to be a better steward to everybody around you.

Cyndi: 30:06

Yes.

Anita: 30:07

There's certain exercises that we could do to definitely bring ourselves into a better version of ourselves.

Cyndi: 30:13

It's just what works for you Wel. Punishment doesn't really work for anybody is what I would advocate for, especially if you have someone who can't manage their energy well and then you try to isolate them. That is not going to help. You're not teaching them anything, you're just reinforcing their inability to process all those emotions and that energy in a healthy, helpful way.

Anita: 30:38

That's right.

Cyndi: 30:39

I love the yoga in school. I could have benefited from that a lot.

Anita: 30:43

You and me both.

Cyndi: 30:45

Well, nita, I want to thank you for taking this time again from your busy day I know you have so much going on for sharing parts of your story and also how you got into this role. I want to thank you for all the work that you're doing to continue to try to make a positive impact on the universe, because I appreciate it and I know other people do. You're just a joy to be around and I don't know how else to say it. Like this, like this I do say it with all my heart and I'm inspired by the work you're doing and how you approach the world.

Anita: 31:33

So right back at you, with the gratitude right back at you, with all of the observations of even the fact that you thought of pulling some type of conversation like this together. I just pray that there's some type of impact that could be my December 31st thing that comes from somebody just hearing this. Thank you for letting me be vulnerable in this space and I just thank everybody who took the time to listen to us today.

Cyndi: 31:57

And I know they will, and I know they will learn from you and I know that they will be also inspired. So thank you for that.